G13 grievances addressed?

• oddy231 wrote on 2010-07-30 05:05

  Quote from abc33kr;110687:

  It seems queer that people want to be pure than branching out. Why so mesochistic? This is Mabinogi, you tried out this game because of the potentials and the freedom to rank any skills.
  
  This game isn't designed to not branch out. Before, I gave you pures suggestions to enjoy the game as pures, but you chose to want a patch that ruins mabi.
  
  When I first saw mabi and read their game intro, I saw the ability to rank any skill you want and be master of everything with diligence.
  "Activities in Mabinogi are enabled through skills. A swordsman can learn the skills of a bowman, and bowmen can wield the magic of wizards! Anything is possible if you take the time to learn and train. Hard work and time are all you need to fulfill the requirements of each skill in order to master it."
  They said anything was possible. Hard work and time are all I need, not a certain class.
  
  All I want them is to keep their promise of freedom. IDC if they balance some stuff so that ppl r not OPed.

  
  Not everyone is you. Not everyone plays for the same reason as you. Not everyone plays the same way as you. I only play for the combat mechanics, everything else, the stupid repair system, the blessing system, the enchant system, the skill system, and even some of the time the rebirth system I pretty much hate. But it's balanced with my love of the combat mechanics, that's why I play.
  People against the class system don't seem to get that everyone doen't play as a human god that's mastered everything. If you want to keep you're whole "doing whatever a want" thing they you could have just stayed adventurer.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-07-30 05:09

  Quote from abc33kr;110696:

  The thing is class doesn't seem to solve anything, if it is best to use wm till you have enough aps to become mm, then they will just become knight then go to wizard.
  
  What will bring balance/diversity is if devcat actually make skills that are compare able with wm and can't argue, which is best. They could do something like *shudders wm nerf *nuuuuu.
  
  However, what I also think is that people in NA are not as creative/dedicated as foreign servers. In NA, i barely see any IS-Blazers or real rangers (ones who have 300+ dmg). Those are actually good skills that can arguably beat windmill. Just that they take a bit more dedication and NA ppl aren't capable of that.

  
  
  Maybe people on YOUR server arent capable of that, but people on the tarlach server are. I for one havent equipped a sword or used WM for 7months. (yes i keep track) I use Thunder or IS+blaze and most archers that i party with hit 300 - 400 dmage and 3k crit magnums. So don't just lump up everyone into the same boat ur in.
  
  

  Quote from oddy231;110698:

  I'm tired of people telling me to go play a different game. I quit when I found out that the class system didn't go through so don't tell me to quit, I already did. And don't act like I'm stupid just because I play the game differently from you.
  Restrictions give people options and option give people diversity and diversity give balance, no longer is one way the strongest, all ways can be strong.
  I wouldn't define people as pure by there skills, a pure person is someone who would have made those sacrifices to excel in the area they want to. Doesn't matter if you have Rank 1 in all combat skills, if you would have sacrificed them to become a alchemist then you're a pure alchemist. If not then you're a hybrid and should have stayed an adventurer.
  And there is no reason you're giving that pures can't be equal to hybrids other than "This is Mabinogi". That's not a real reason, it's a game and It's content can change. If this class system had gone through, this whole thing would be reversed, I'd be the one telling you to quit and you'd be giving reasons in your defense as well. Just be glad that a ton of Mabinogi Korea players don't like the think things through and keep their minds closed.

  
  
  ^agreed, everyone that opposef this is a whining cry baby unable to accept a change that would have ultimately made the game better.
  
  

  Quote from Syrphid;110684:

  I guess the idea of classes appeals to me. I like mabi's get-touched-and-die and kb system but the way it's set up leads to too much reliance on wm. A class system would add a lot of diversity to the game without ruining it. Seems like a good solution to me.
  
  In the ciar adv example, warriors can pet smash the golems away, draw a sprite with 2x ice, swipe it, and then run behind to smash it toward the wall to smashmill, but that takes a lot of time, and the damage isn't very good (melee's appeal lies in its wm's aoe, after all). AR spam probably kills a lot faster. [it would be really cool if warriors had a slight dmg boost to encourage the more adventurous ones to charge in and swipemill all 4 mobs at once and brave the pd, seems to fit the warrior spirit right?]
  
  If the progression is really warrior --> mana master, then at the beginning of the game everyone is a warrior, a year in we might have a few mm's, and by the 2nd year nearly everyone is now spamming thunder instead of wm. You don't really get diversity this way. Perhaps we could if they planned out some new strategies, but a soft class system that encourages specialization seems like a much fresher approach.

  
  
  I like this. Except not everyone goes warrior to mana master. Even when i started playing the game 2 1/2 years ago i was determined to not use range/melee unless it was an absolute requirement. Also not everyones end game is mana master, maybe for them its to master all range, barrier spikes, and dex giving skills
• User495 wrote on 2010-07-30 05:21

  Quote from abc33kr;110728:

  you are not accepting the fact that those who want the freedom to pure build also have the freedom to play runescape or maplestory owo. rofl
  
  the balance between pure and hybrid =/= diversity because pure is just the developing step of hybrid.
  
  you class supporters think hybrid =/= diversity, but that is quite ironic as hybrid is the one that is logically related with diversity and pure is the one that is disassociated with diversity. With pure, there are only 4 types to choose from (warrior, mage, range, alchemist). With hybrid there are too many choices to list (meele/range, alchemy/mage, range/alchemy, meele/mage, etc).
  
  I will repeat with more examples that MABINOGI IS FOR HYBRIDS.
  You might not realize, but are certain things that will be almost impossible for a pure.
  
  G10 zombies (range/mage X_X)
  G11 Beeper (meele X_X)
  G11 Uroboros (mage/maybe alchemist X_X)
  
  but if they are hybrid...
  G10 zombies (golem summoning :D)
  G11 Beeper (Sand Burst :D)
  G11 Uroboros (meh... nexon hates you, you still screwed without a strategy)
  
  Thus, stop the QQ that hybrids r OPed. Referring back to my previous analogy, eat your steak with fork and knife you derp xP.

  
  
  so.. where have I mentioned hybrids being overpowered? I would just rather not repeat my dozen posts , obviously they have the freedom to choose MMOs yes, so they choose Mabi, the freedom is not strictly combat or skills
  
  I only suggested to put more things into consideration rather than being biased as you have been all along "don't like it? stop playing" CONSIDER that there are more reasons for a person to play Mabinogi, the art style? the combat mechanics? unrestricted equipment (to more of a degree than other MMO), transformations? Bard/music scrolls?
  
  what you've said completely ruined your argument, you say Mabinogi is about freedom yet, it's FOR HYBRIDS? not everyone will be going to every single dungeon known to man, not everyone fight, not everyone grind all day to finish training their skills, not everyone do Mainstream, not everyone care about the skills,
  
  maybe you should put into consideration more things when you're debating or arguing whichever floats your boat I would rather this be more civilized without any insults thrown out there, and learn to accept that there are other perspectives other than your own, I came to this conclusion when you decided to start saying queer and derp, you seem mad, pissed, annoyed, irritated whichever you prefer
  
  and with my freedom, I can eat my steak with a chopstick thank you very much
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-07-30 05:29
  Ha! A quote from the most pro mabi player i know.
  
  

  Mabinogi has no limits on what skills your character can acquire. This, combined with the advertising campaign of Nexon's "fantasy life," has led many people to mistakenly believe that hybridization is the key to everything—that everyone should immediately gain as many skills as possible and rank most or all of them in order to be as "flexible" as possible and have the ability to run any dungeon they want to.
  
  This way of thinking is entirely backward. Hybridization should occur later in your fantasy life, not right away. Instead, you should build yourself strong in one particular skill set, and use the immense power you have in that one area to quickly gain the AP and money you will need for the other skill sets. Purism is a means to an end. You won't stay a pure mage (or pure ranger or pure warrior) forever. You're using high ranks in a select few skills (and the high damage output that comes with those ranks) to more quickly expand your power base.
  
  The opposition will immediately bring up "but then you have no flexibility, you can't do a lot of the dungeons that are available to you and you'll have no way to defeat certain monsters." Guess what? You don't actually need to do every dungeon available, nor do you need to be able to defeat every monster. You only need the skill set for the job you signed up for—becoming a powerful mage in the shortest time possible. You won't have to worry about most dungeons at all. The best dungeons for leveling, hands down, are Ciar Advanced and Rundal Normal Hardmode, and of the two, Ciar Advanced is preferable. With the skill build I've laid out here, you'll have no trouble grinding Ciar Advanced with a little practice under your belt.
  
  Just remember that this guide is written for the "serious" individual. If you would prefer more immediate flexibility as opposed to an overall quick and powerful build that requires dedication of time and potential boredom, that's not a bad thing, but it is an inferior way to build a character overall.

  
  
  From Trigger's guide To Magic
• User495 wrote on 2010-07-30 05:33

  Quote from Tatsigi;110753:

  Ha! A quote from the most pro mabi player i know.
  
  
  
  From Trigger's guide To Magic

  
  
  :lol: :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::2thumb::awesome::lol:
• Syrphid wrote on 2010-07-30 05:34

  Quote from abc33kr;110728:

  you are not accepting the fact that those who want the freedom to pure build also have the freedom to play runescape or maplestory owo. rofl
  
  the balance between pure and hybrid =/= diversity because pure is just the developing step of hybrid.
  
  you class supporters think hybrid =/= diversity, but that is quite ironic as hybrid is the one that is logically related with diversity and pure is the one that is disassociated with diversity. With pure, there are only 4 types to choose from (warrior, mage, range, alchemist). With hybrid there are too many choices to list (meele/range, alchemy/mage, range/alchemy, meele/mage, etc).
  
  I will repeat with more examples that MABINOGI IS FOR HYBRIDS.
  You might not realize, but are certain things that will be almost impossible for a pure.
  
  G10 zombies (range/mage X_X)
  G11 Beeper (meele X_X)
  G11 Uroboros (mage/maybe alchemist X_X)
  
  but if they are hybrid...
  G10 zombies (golem summoning :D)
  G11 Beeper (Sand Burst :D)
  G11 Uroboros (meh... nexon hates you, you still screwed without a strategy)
  
  Thus, stop the QQ that hybrids r OPed. Referring back to my previous analogy, eat your steak with fork and knife you derp xP.
  
  edit1
  
  
  o rly? so you want all the passive defenses removed? you want raft removed? you want hot-air balloon removed? Just because there are classes in other games doesn't mean it is needed here. Mabinogi is pretty much a haven for those who are tired of same old boring gameplay.

  
  
  abc33kr, you aren't king of mabi, you don't get to decide by yourself how mabi should and should not be. You argue that mabi should remain perfectly classless because that's how you envisioned it. You're only one person, not everyone shares or agrees with your vision.
  
  Those examples go to show that you confuse pure builds will self-restriction, as if an archer could never pull out dual glads and spin. Perhaps their spins only do half damage, they'd still wipe zombies out.
  
  Perhaps melee's AR and magnum are disabled, they can still chew away with normal ranged attack.
  
  

  Quote from Tatsigi;110731:

  I like this. Except not everyone goes warrior to mana master. Even when i started playing the game 2 1/2 years ago i was determined to not use range/melee unless it was an absolute requirement. Also not everyones end game is mana master, maybe for them its to master all range, barrier spikes, and dex giving skills

  
  
  Maybe that's a competitive build, I couldn't say for sure, but range's lack of a large aoe and weak multi aggro control doesn't make it very appealing.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-07-30 05:51

  Quote from Tatsigi;110753:

  Ha! A quote from the most pro mabi player i know.
  
  
  
  From Trigger's guide To Magic

  
  
  rofl you should have hid the 2nd paragraph.
  what he said was that pure build is a developmental build and hybrid is what everyone eventually ends up with.
  
  so let's put that into class context, you can't become hybrid anymore and everyone is stuck in the development stage without anything to develop. QQ for everyone.
  
  just because you are still under development doesn't mean you should bring down hybrids to your level.
  
  Here is a question that I want to ask that have been ignored and made me more and more confused about ur view:
  
  WHY DO YOU THINK CURRENT MABINOGI SYSTEM IS FORCING HYBRID ON YOU? cuz its not.
  At first you gave a vague answer that hybrid is stronger. Then we came to conclusion that hybrids can have upper hand at certain situations. Then I was annoyed at the fact that you were bawwing at how current system lacks diversity, which is quite ironic. Thus, I ranted that pures should leave mabi, but that was mistake on my part.
  I'm pretty sure you ignored my suggestion of not being forced hybrid and staying pure (saving up ap so you can rank the skills of your pure when it comes out).
  
  So please give a clear answer that won't create future confusion and argument that has continued for 31 pages.
  I want to see your view except it is extremely confusing.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-07-30 05:55

  Quote from abc33kr;110777:

  rofl you should have hid the 2nd paragraph.
  what he said was that pure build is a developmental build and hybrid is what everyone eventually ends up with.
  
  so let's put that into class context, you can't become hybrid anymore and everyone is stuck in the development stage without anything to develop. QQ for everyone.
  
  just because you are still under development doesn't mean you should bring down hybrids to your level.
  
  Here is a question that I want to ask that have been ignored and made me more and more confused about ur view:
  
  WHY DO YOU THINK CURRENT MABINOGI SYSTEM IS FORCING HYBRID ON YOU? cuz its not.
  At first you gave a vague answer that hybrid is stronger. Then we came to conclusion that hybrids can have upper hand at certain situations. Then I was annoyed at the fact that you were bawwing at how current system lacks diversity, which is quite ironic. Thus, I ranted that pures should leave mabi, but that was mistake on my part.
  I'm pretty sure you ignored my suggestion of not being forced hybrid and staying pure (saving up ap so you can rank the skills of your pure when it comes out).
  
  So please give a clear answer that won't create future confusion and argument that has continued for 31 pages.
  I want to see your view except it is extremely confusing.

  
  
  First off, after you have mastered all the skills, you have an addiction. But thats not the main point. Thats why they made the adventurer class so people can use all the pre-g13 skills. Also my answer was pretty clear :/
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-07-30 06:06

  Quote from Tatsigi;110779:

  First off, after you have mastered all the skills, you have an addiction. But thats not the main point. Thats why they made the adventurer class so people can use all the pre-g13 skills. Also my answer was pretty clear :/

  
  
  The fact that adventurer class not being able to solve the class problem has been resolved a long time ago (here are some example, exclusion from parties due to less dmg and missing out on all future content; behind competition. That as well be my main reason for opposing classes.
  
  sooo
  WHY DO YOU THINK CURRENT MABINOGI SYSTEM IS FORCING HYBRID ON YOU?
  You haven't answered on your post. Going back through all the pages and reading all your posts is not effective as your message could be interpreted differently.
  I want a clear summarized answer that will end this time consuming argument.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-07-30 06:11

  Quote from abc33kr;110784:

  The fact that adventurer class not being able to solve the class problem has been resolved a long time ago (here are some example, exclusion from parties due to less dmg and missing out on all future content; behind competition. That as well be my main reason for opposing classes.
  
  sooo
  WHY DO YOU THINK CURRENT MABINOGI SYSTEM IS FORCING HYBRID ON YOU?
  You haven't answered on your post. Going back through all the pages and reading all your posts is not effective as your message could be interpreted differently.
  I want a clear summarized answer that will end this time consuming argument.

  
  
  the adventurer/classless people do NOT deserve the new content. If they don't want to join a class then oh freakin well. The current system is forcing the new system on everyone because of hybrid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pure which isnt fair at all. The old class system balanced that out and all you people who complained are.....nvm wont finish that. Moppy and Juno are reading this thread.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-07-30 06:15

  Quote from Tatsigi;110788:

  the adventurer/classless people do NOT deserve the new content. If they don't want to join a class then oh freakin well. The current system is forcing the new system on everyone because of hybrid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pure which isnt fair at all. The old class system balanced that out and all you people who complained are.....nvm wont finish that. Moppy and Juno are reading this thread.

  
  
  *doesn't see Mop on thread browser list.
  does that mean he acquired elf hide?
  
  but hybrids do same damage as pure.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-07-30 06:17

  Quote from abc33kr;110793:

  *doesn't see Mop on thread browser list.
  does that mean he acquired elf hide?

  
  
  no no, they check back every so often :o
• Zeo wrote on 2010-07-30 06:53
  Hmm... so when people was reading my title in Mabinogi how I liked new Classes system better.
  
  I explained to them it's because of no skill restrictions and that I don't want to be restricted, then they used..
  
  "You already are restricted, based on your races" for their agruements. x:
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-07-30 07:17
  xP ya i think races could be vaguely class ish.
  
  zeo you do realize moon is his last name and sung joon is his first name.
• pataterose wrote on 2010-07-30 07:23
  when i first started playing mabinogi (long time ago), i was like: "hell yeah, i can be a magical warrior" and i went to rank melee and magic together. that was probably a development error since it took em longer to get good damage as most people would have, but i really enjoyed that possibility. the irony is that now im almost entirely melee (using bolt left and right, sometime using a wand in rabbie adv).
  
  i didn't like the old class system, cause it was forcing me to use a specific skill set (even if i could change it every week, it was still annoying), and if i was restarting playing with the new class system i would quit by the time i do g9. seriously, i would obtain skills i can't even use, when doing g10, the odds of me unable to do last boss (cause life drain was disabled for most class), and g11 needs for spark would drive me away quite fast.
  
  all the go adventurer to stay hybrid is a bad arguments, as most people "specialize" in one are of combat, and sometimes uses the others if needs be. in my case its mainly melee, and to eb able to keep comptitive damge with my melee, i would have needed to go knight, thus gaining the needed damage, but sacrificing over 300mp, 35hp from lack of life drain, mana shield, and the ability to use skills i trained for a long time (it would be even worse for the korean/japanese/etc.. who has this game for 4+ years and who always played competitively)
  
  also, if you really want to keep a "pure" build, you can always do a "final" rebirth wich consist of rebirthing at 10, getting the highest lvl possible, and then capping the stats you need to 999 using food.