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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-26 19:49
Quote from ewire123;1140744:
But that combo is more for soloing.
Hailstorm is more party friendly, no cockblock with ice spear.
Fair enough. You could also play off of another players mag or smash and if you position yourself just right you can pull off a godly blaze.
Vejosa also seems to swear by the Thunder -> Blaze book. The delay in Thunder is enough to get Blaze off if you can predict where the mob will be tossed or do some wall/barrier spike technique to increase the predictability.
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wallrocha wrote on 2013-08-26 20:01
I'd still use a Savage Ice and a Hermit for Thunder/dmg
[S]deja vu wtf[/S]
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Slayerj wrote on 2013-08-26 20:55
Quote from ewire123;1140744:
But that combo is more for soloing.
Hailstorm is more party friendly, no cockblock with ice spear.
Well unless your team loves moving the target/other targets out of your range AS-fking-P. >.>;..Even while you yell at them not to. And yes, I do mean even if they're against a wall. SOMEONE WILL ALWAYS KNOCK IT AWAY SOMEHOW.
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-26 22:32
Okay well I just double checked the casting speed. Same stats and rank for both wands. Same upgrades.
one had level 18 Casting Reforge, the other did not.
The one with the casting reforge shaved off 2 and a half seconds from my fireball charging.
Now assuming I have 3 second latency in total with fireball (Test was hoving around 17.2-17.6 seconds)
If my additive formula is correct. then I should have been doing 12 second fireballs with r4 Magic Weapon Mastery, 200 int, level 18 casting reforge, and 28% casting speed wand.
I expect some pretty quick fireballs when we get this :D
Also upside to the upgrade changes is that the decrease in magic damage is now decrease of magic attack so instead of losing 6% magic damage with casting speed +40, you only lose 6 magic attack instead.
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Slayerj wrote on 2013-08-26 22:56
Yay, now let's just pray that at some point mana reduction will stack <3...
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Perfectio wrote on 2013-08-27 01:34
Quote from ewire123;1140744:
But that combo is more for soloing.
Hailstorm is more party friendly, no cockblock with ice spear.
Except that most of what a party does makes Hailstorm useless by spreading mobs out. So it's party friendliness is overrated there. And Ice Spear freezing stuff can buy gunners a Shooting Rush, Puppeteers a Crisis/Climatic, Fighters time to charge Focused Fist, Rangers time for crash CD to reset, and meleers to position WM. With Crisis + Hail, the party has to wait until the Hailstorm runs out or Hailstorm turns into single target DPS. Also dont you need TWO crisis users anyway?
With speedcast upgrades and 350 total MATK, mages will push out 6-17k AOE damage with superior crowd control every 5 seconds, and this is without Rosemary, Ice Mastery reforge or Speed cast reforge. Ice Spear also has greater synergy with Blaze and supports party play by freezing then knocking back mobs in a predictable pattern. At endgame, Ice Spear will do 10k normal damage, coming out every 4 seconds while being able to effectively freeze an are simikar to Fireball AOE.
In my opinion, Ice Spear far outclasses Hailstorm and will remain the crown jewel of magic combat.
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ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-27 03:00
Quote from Perfectio;1140814:
Except that most of what a party does makes Hailstorm useless by spreading mobs out. So it's party friendliness is overrated there. And Ice Spear freezing stuff can buy gunners a Shooting Rush, Puppeteers a Crisis/Climatic, Fighters time to charge Focused Fist, Rangers time for crash CD to reset, and meleers to position WM. With Crisis + Hail, the party has to wait until the Hailstorm runs out or Hailstorm turns into single target DPS. Also dont you need TWO crisis users anyway?
With speedcast upgrades and 350 total MATK, mages will push out 6-17k AOE damage with superior crowd control every 5 seconds, and this is without Rosemary, Ice Mastery reforge or Speed cast reforge. Ice Spear also has greater synergy with Blaze and supports party play by freezing then knocking back mobs in a predictable pattern. At endgame, Ice Spear will do 10k normal damage, coming out every 4 seconds while being able to effectively freeze an are simikar to Fireball AOE. In my opinion, Ice Spear far outclasses Hailstorm and will remain the crown jewel of magic combat.
Sir, no spell outclassed each other, they all have their use.
I have run Npc using hailstorm+crisis with my friends/guildy and I know how useful it is. Today daily is tail def and I wreck faces with my puppeteer buddy, where as ice spear would fall short or cost unnecessary amount of mp.
No point arguing further since your opinion is set. I will continue doing my 20k hailstorm in the mean time (40k after revamp)
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Gaby5011 wrote on 2013-08-27 04:01
Quote from ewire123;1137995:
Master of meteor strike are rumor to add +50 magic attack. It will be the ultimate title for Mage, similar to the sniper for archery. Title will further separate the non dedicate Mage from the hardcore one.
Challenge accepted.
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wallrocha wrote on 2013-08-27 04:38
Master of Meteor Strike does add +50 Magic Attack.
[SPOILER=";_; and I tried to buy this the entire gachapon week"]Scathach subtitle will add +40 Magic Attack[/SPOILER]
I've read somewhere here that they changed Magic Attack reforges to x4? is this true?
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Perfectio wrote on 2013-08-27 11:21
Quote from ewire123;1140842:
Sir, no spell outclassed each other, they all have their use.
I have run Npc using hailstorm+crisis with my friends/guildy and I know how useful it is. Today daily is tail def and I wreck faces with my puppeteer buddy, where as ice spear would fall short or cost unnecessary amount of mp.
No point arguing further since your opinion is set. I will continue doing my 20k hailstorm in the mean time (40k after revamp)
Crisis.
Crisis.
Crisis.
THAT is the problem.
You need Crisis for Hailstorm to be useful at all.
And even with Crisis, IS + Blaze beats it in burst DPS and you still often need a second Crisis to maximize the DPS. Ice Spear alone can push out 10k normals and 25k crits every 4 seconds with a snapcast thrown in, and that's just by going with a speed oriented endgame build with around 500 MATK, an Ice Mastery reforge, Rosemary, etc. Also you can get IS damage reforge on gloves if you're willing to forego IS explosion or MS reforge, so that increases the damage even further.
I know you like Hailstorm but it's an extremely situational spell compared to Ice Spear, and other combos do its job better. Hailstorm with crisis support is pretty good now (though when you consider the to make hailstorm work you have to neuter the rest of your party otherwise they'll interrupt the crisis setup, not as good as one would think), but that's only because the only options fell so short. Ice Spear come revamp will be the king of AOE DPS in Mabinogi, so that's why I say it will severely outclass Hailstorm.
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-27 11:24
Hey guys just thought I'd mention but I happened upon a new discovery when Genso was asking about ego wands. I think I know why I see so many koreans using ego fire wands in KR. It would appear that social level increases firebolt damage. How much, I'm not quite sure how though or if any other ego stats also increase it.
After doing 25 shots on each I can confirm with absolute certainty that social affects firebolt damage on an ego fire wand.
I was hitting a max of 2,059 Firebolt Damage on Raccoons at a pretty decent rate with a Level 15 Social Ego Fire Wand(Level 1 in all the other stats. Yes you can level just social on KR test), r9 firebolt, 64 magic attack, r7 fire mastery, r 1 bolt mastery, and r2 magic weapon mastery
While I was consistently hitting a max of 1,750 Firebolt Damage with a normal ego wand at a decent rate as well, and same stats and skill ranks.
Highest crit with ego was 4,015 which also popped up fairly offten while highest crit I saw on normal ego wand was 3,410.
These tests were done with 5 charge firebolts
[spoiler=" Ego Wand Raw Hit Data"]
1956
1990
1996
1441
2059
1972
2059
1845
4015 crit
2059
3907 crit
2059
1887
2059
4015 crit
4015 crit
1871
2053
4015 crit
1518
4015 crit
1499
2059
3777 crit
2059
2059
[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Raw Fire Wand CC+4 Hit Data"]
2719 crit
1362
1750
1029
1201
1750
1750
1750
1750
1750
1544
1750
1510
1496
1499
3410 crit
3410 crit
1393
1750
1684
1750
3289 crit
1716
1512
1750
1415
[/spoiler]
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Gensokyou wrote on 2013-08-27 11:27
Quote from Perfectio;1140955:
I know you like Hailstorm but it's an extremely situational spell compared to Ice Spear, and other combos do its job better. Hailstorm with crisis support is pretty good now (though when you consider the to make hailstorm work you have to neuter the rest of your party otherwise they'll interrupt the crisis setup, not as good as one would think), but that's only because the only options fell so short. Ice Spear come revamp will be the king of AOE DPS in Mabinogi, so that's why I say it will severely outclass Hailstorm.
Oh dear.
Yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Ice spear has no place in party play unless you're doing sulfer spider or something.
Quote from Kingofrunes;1140957:
Hey guys just thought I'd mention but I happened upon a new discovery when Genso was asking about ego wands. I think I know why I see so many koreans using ego fire wands in KR. It would appear that social level increases firebolt damage. How much, I'm not quite sure on.
All right after doing 25 shots on each I can confirm with absolute certainty that social affects firebolt damage on an ego fire wand.
I was hitting a max of 2,059 Firebolt Damage on Raccoons at a pretty decent rate with a Level 15 Social Ego Fire Wand(Level 1 in all the other stats. Yes you can level just social on KR test), r9 firebolt, 64 magic attack, r7 fire mastery, r 1 bolt mastery, and r2 magic weapon mastery
While I was consistently hitting a max of 1,750 Firebolt Damage with a normal ego wand at a decent rate as well, and same stats and skill ranks.
Highest crit with ego was 4,015 which also popped up fairly offten while highest crit I saw on normal ego wand was 3,410.
These tests were done with 5 charge firebolts
[spoiler=" Ego Wand Raw Hit Data"]
1956
1990
1996
1441
2059
1972
2059
1845
4015 crit
2059
3907 crit
2059
1887
2059
4015 crit
4015 crit
1871
2053
4015 crit
1518
4015 crit
1499
2059
3777 crit
2059
2059
[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Raw Fire Wand CC+4 Hit Data"]
2719 crit
1362
1750
1029
1201
1750
1750
1750
1750
1750
1544
1750
1510
1496
1499
3410 crit
3410 crit
1393
1750
1684
1750
3289 crit
1716
1512
1750
1415
[/spoiler]
This is amazing O_O
Please, test moar. MOAR NUMBERS
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-27 11:31
Quote from Gensokyou;1140960:
Oh dear.
Yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Ice spear has no place in party play unless you're doing sulfer spider or something.
This is amazing O_O
Please, test moar. MOAR NUMBERS
Next test is I will try is with level 21 social. At least then I won't need to do 2 charges to test this :/
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Aubog007 wrote on 2013-08-27 11:43
Ego wands boosted spell damage, how much? I wasn't sure, this was something lost with time, unless it's a new thing, but i knew people chose ego lightning wands for higher LB damage back in the day.
Observational bias.
Although i believe ego Lightning wand was to counteract the low balance chaincasting ended up giving it.
This is something extremely old that my memory may be a bit hazy on.
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Perfectio wrote on 2013-08-27 11:50
Oh dear.
Yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Ice spear has no place in party play unless you're doing sulfer spider or something.
Like I said before, Ice Spear provides benefits to party play that make the fact that it makes mobs invulnerable irrelevant. Sure I wouldn't use it on hardened mobs, and it has rather bad synergy with Act 7, but being able to take multiple enemies out of the fight while doing a lot of AOE DPS is a very valuable tool.
For example, me and a team of 5 fighters do NPC second to last round. I Ice Spear 5 NPCs, while the 5 fighters focus fire on the unfrozen 3 NPCs. Then I freeze 3 NPCs, , the others focus on 2 NPCs, and so on and so forth. And the Ice Speared NPCs will have taken rather significant damage in the meantime.