[Mabinogi] Zero Merlin Update (Information Consolidated and Organized)

• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-28 15:24

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1141390:

  I'm pretty sure that reforges is a large play on it. Reforges is the one unaccounted portion. Also, magic attack may play a bigger role than that formula makes it seem.
  
  However, in order to test with hailstorm I need to drag Herro's Giant alt with me into Par to kill an ice witch as it's making me do the quest to get Hailstorm. After that I can reforge the hell out of my trinity staff and see what I get.
  
  At the very least I can try a firebolt max damage reforge first with what I have and then test vs magic attack reforge.
  
  If reforges have a significant impact I should notice the difference pretty quickly. Last reforge I focused on was charging speed.

  
  
  Water Cannon caps at 20 level, which adds +60 to your base water cannon damage. When added to r1 Water Cannon, you end up with 196 base Water Cannon damage.
  
  Prefix: Boiling, Synergy x2, Transparent x2 (+55 Water Alchemic)
  Suffix: Wave x2, Tidal x2, Ripple x4 (+134 Water Alchemic)
  Abyss: +36
  Guard: +17
  Talent: +15
  
  [(Base Damage * Distance Reduction * Charges) + ((Water Damage Enchants + (Current Mana * Coefficient) Charges + Damage Enchants)] * Critical Modifier
  Additional Damage * (Alchemy Mastery Bonus + Water Alchemy Mastery Bonus) / .15
  (Normal Damage + Extra Damage) * Cylinder Modifier * Elemental Modifier * Rain Casting Bonus
  
  (196 * 6.5) + (257 + (900 * 0.3)5) * 3.12 = 12,196
  67 (0.15 + 0.1)/0.15 = 111
  (12,196 + 111) 1.36 = 16,737 x 1.2 = 20,084
  
  How is that guy making up nearly 10k damage?
  
  --
  
  Also, i've decided to settle with Artisan and S-Type.
• ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 15:24

  Quote from Tropa;1141395:

  Alchemy really doesn't have that many reforges, Watercannon max damage, Water Alchemic damage and Watercannon raincloud enhancement(I have no idea how much this this even adds)

  
  
  He probably have all three :) which could explain the 30k wc with rain support.
  
  

  Quote from Kaeporo;1141396:

  
  
  How is that guy making up nearly 10k damage?
  
  

  
  
  Did you count water cannon raincloud/water alchemic damage reforge in there?
• Tropa wrote on 2013-08-28 15:28

  Quote from Kaeporo;1141396:

  [SPOILER="."]Water Cannon caps at 20 level, which adds +60 to your base water cannon damage. When added to r1 Water Cannon, you end up with 196 base Water Cannon damage.
  
  Prefix: Boiling, Synergy x2, Transparent x2 (+55 Water Alchemic)
  Suffix: Wave x2, Tidal x2, Ripple x4 (+134 Water Alchemic)
  Abyss: +36
  Guard: +17
  Talent: +15
  
  [(Base Damage * Distance Reduction * Charges) + ((Water Damage Enchants + (Current Mana * Coefficient) Charges + Damage Enchants)] * Critical Modifier
  Additional Damage * (Alchemy Mastery Bonus + Water Alchemy Mastery Bonus) / .15
  (Normal Damage + Extra Damage) * Cylinder Modifier * Elemental Modifier * Rain Casting Bonus
  
  (196 * 6.5) + (257 + (900 * 0.3)5) * 3.12 = 12,196
  67 (0.15 + 0.1)/0.15 = 111
  (12,196 + 111) 1.36 = 16,737 x 1.2 = 20,084
  
  How is that guy making up nearly 10k damage?[/SPOILER]

  
  
  Wait, current mana goes into Watercannon's base damage, right?
  
  

  Quote from ewire123;1141397:

  Did you count water cannon raincloud/water alchemic damage reforge in there?

  
  
  The %/damage output from the Raincloud enhancement reforge is unknown, unless KR/JP wikis have it down somewhere.
• ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 15:34

  Quote from Tropa;1141399:

  
  The %/damage output from the Raincloud enhancement reforge is unknown, unless KR/JP wikis have it down somewhere.

  
  
  Yeah, reforge is definitely our "unknow" part. The crazy magic/alchemy damage we seen lately could probably because of these reforge.
  
  30k WC water cannon that is like a magnum shot that never miss. Pretty destructive :)
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-28 15:34
  Okay so I was chatting with ca25 to try and get to the bottom of hailstorm. Here's what I have
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/4d4LC.png]

  
  [11:32:26 AM] ca25nada: +13 from regular upgrade
  [11:32:39 AM] ca25nada: lizard / deadly for enchants (which are just crits)
  [11:32:47 AM] ca25nada: +59 int from artisan
  [11:32:54 AM] ca25nada: +68 matk from special
  [11:33:01 AM] ca25nada: +36 matk from reforge
  [11:33:07 AM] ca25nada: 7.5 int from reforge
  [11:33:13 AM] ca25nada: +8 hailstorm min from reforge
  ice elemental on staff
  
  380 Magic Attack is what she said she had in her stat window.
  
  r1 Ice Mastery, r1 Hailstorm, no rosemary gloves
  
  27,000 crit on 1/0 enemy, 10,904 on 1/0 enemy
  10,910 normal on 0/0 enemy
  
  Trying to work with that
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-28 15:37

  Quote from ewire123;1141397:

  He probably have all three :) which could explain the 30k wc with rain support.
  
  Did you count water cannon raincloud/water alchemic damage reforge in there?

  
  
  (12,307) 1.46 = 16,737 x 1.4 = 25,155
  
  Still doesn't explain it.
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-08-28 15:37

  Quote from ewire123;1141394:

  Does shoot rush windmill or crash shot give enemy 4 sec of invincibility? You're missing MY point.
  
  Everyone in the party want to continuously dealing damage, ice spear just screw that up. At least crisis have a cool down. Ice spear don't, and continue to interrupt people combo with no cool down.

  
  
  Unless the IS user is bad and spams single charge, the party has 5 seconds to use their combos while the IS user gets full charge again.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-08-28 15:38

  Quote from ewire123;1141394:

  Does shoot rush windmill or crash shot give enemy 4 sec of invincibility? You're missing MY point.
  
  Everyone in the party want to continuously dealing damage, ice spear just screw that up. At least crisis have a cool down. Ice spear don't, and continue to interrupt people combo with no cool down.

  
  Your point is essentially that you don't want to wait four seconds, even if it leads to massive AOE damage. That's comparable to the animation time of smash, or shooting rush. Annoying perhaps, but hardly ineffectual in the least.
• ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 15:40
  I notice most hailstorm staff is enchant with lizard deadly, which mean critical is still very important for hailstorm. If you're planning to spam hailstorm exclusively with your hermit, it might be worthwhile to get the unique upgrade for the +15 crit.
  
  

  Quote from Zekkii;1141404:

  Your point is essentially that you don't want to wait four seconds, even if it leads to massive AOE damage. That's comparable to the animation time of smash, or shooting rush. Annoying perhaps, but hardly ineffectual in the least.

  
  
  Well if you want to get technical, it longer than 4 sec due to ice spear chaining, plus in those 4 sec, they are charging ice spear to spam it again.
  

  Quote from Perfectio;1141403:

  Unless the IS user is bad and spams single charge, the party has 5 seconds to use their combos while the IS user gets full charge again.

  
  Uh nope. In those 4-5 sec of freezing, the ice spear user would already have full charge another ice spear ready. Have you seen how fast ice spear charge after revamp?
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-28 15:40
  More Stats from ca.
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/4d53b.png]

  
  
  [11:37:02 AM] ca25nada: so 192 matk just from int
  [11:37:20 AM] ca25nada: 6583 noncrit
  [11:37:28 AM] ca25nada: 6583 again
  [11:37:50 AM] ca25nada: 6395
  [11:38:00 AM] ca25nada: 5759
  [11:38:26 AM] ca25nada: 6207
  [11:38:32 AM] Roy: hmmm max I keep calculating is 10,896 Hailstorm damage with the formula
  
  Max Base Damage + (Skill Factor * Magic Attack)
  [11:38:35 AM] ca25nada: 16458 crit
  [11:38:42 AM] ca25nada: 6583 again
  [11:38:59 AM] ca25nada: so that's probably the max
  [11:39:09 AM] Roy: ya the 16,458 works out
  [11:39:18 AM] Roy: 6,583 * 2.5 = 16,457.5
  [11:39:35 AM] Roy: so assuming your max hit there is 6,583
  [11:39:39 AM] Roy: thanks
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-28 15:41

  Quote from Zekkii;1141404:

  Your point is essentially that you don't want to wait four seconds, even if it leads to massive AOE damage. That's comparable to the animation time of smash, or shooting rush. Annoying perhaps, but hardly ineffectual in the least.

  
  
  Ice Spear is probably the most useful skill in the middle room of sulfur spider because of how nicely it handles the grouped mobs, especially when you don't land a critical hit. It's far from the best option in other rooms, however, with Climactic Crash hitting upwards of 50k, Shooting Rush hitting upwards of 20k, and Crash Shot hitting upwards of 15k.
• Tropa wrote on 2013-08-28 15:42

  Quote from ewire123;1141405:

  I notice most hailstorm staff is enchant with lizard deadly, which mean critical is still very important for hailstorm. If you're planning to spam hailstorm exclusively with your hermit, it might be worthwhile to get the unique upgrade for the +15 crit.

  
  
  The hermit's artisan is like 75luck, which is the same, you have a chance at getting the same amount of crit and even better Magic.atk(If you have nx to spare, that is)
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-08-28 15:44

  Quote from Kaeporo;1141407:

  Ice Spear is probably the most useful skill in the middle room of sulfur spider because of how nicely it handles the grouped mobs, especially when you don't land a critical hit. It's far from the best option in other rooms, however, with Climactic Crash hitting upwards of 50k, Shooting Rush hitting upwards of 20k, and Crash Shot hitting upwards of 15k.

  
  Well in the case in which you need massive DPS, I'm thinking Crisis + Ice Spear + Blaze should fare quite well, as illustrated in the video King posted.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-28 15:49

  Quote from Zekkii;1141410:

  Well in the case in which you need massive DPS, I'm thinking Crisis + Ice Spear + Blaze should fare quite well, as illustrated in the video King posted.

  
  
  Throughout Mabinogi, Blaze has either been incredibly broken or basically useless. Regardless, it does require some coordination and it's not particularly reliable. While it would be useful in the martial arts tournament, it's simply too impractical to be efficient when you can effortlessly kill enemies with other skills.
  
  A similar comparison can be made between Human and Elf ranged efficiency. Elf Magnum Shot might completely dominate Human w/e concerning DPS but there really aren't very many places where that improved damage output actually matters.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-28 15:50
  One last bit. This is with 1 charge hailstorm:
  
  Same stats as the previous 2 posts
  
  [11:47:21 AM] ca25nada: 1053
  [11:47:23 AM] ca25nada: 1053
  [11:47:24 AM] ca25nada: 971
  [11:47:25 AM] ca25nada: 1053
  [11:47:27 AM] ca25nada: 1053
  [11:47:36 AM] ca25nada: all noncrit 1charge
  [11:47:37 AM] Roy: 1053 must be the max
  
  If you guys want to pitch in and help theorycraft how to arrive at 1,053 with 192 Magic Attack, r1 Ice Mastery, no titles, r1 Hailstorm single charge, no reforges on a 0/0 enemy, single charge, that would be pretty nifty.
  
  (300 + (192 * 3.2)) * 1.15
  (300 + 614.4) * 1.15
  914.4 * 1.15 = 1,051.56
  
  Short by 1.5.
  
  The formula keeps coming up as pretty close. It's either off by 1-2 or as high as 20 at higher charges.