[Mabinogi] Zero Merlin Update (Information Consolidated and Organized)

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Zekkii wrote on 2013-08-28 15:51

Quote from Kingofrunes;1141401:
Okay so I was chatting with ca25 to try and get to the bottom of hailstorm. Here's what I have

[Image: http://puu.sh/4d4LC.png]

[11:32:26 AM] ca25nada: +13 from regular upgrade
[11:32:39 AM] ca25nada: lizard / deadly for enchants (which are just crits)
[11:32:47 AM] ca25nada: +59 int from artisan
[11:32:54 AM] ca25nada: +68 matk from special
[11:33:01 AM] ca25nada: +36 matk from reforge
[11:33:07 AM] ca25nada: 7.5 int from reforge
[11:33:13 AM] ca25nada: +8 hailstorm min from reforge
ice elemental on staff

380 Magic Attack is what she said she had in her stat window.

r1 Ice Mastery, r1 Hailstorm, no rosemary gloves

27,000 crit on 1/0 enemy, 10,904 on 1/0 enemy
10,910 normal on 0/0 enemy

Trying to work with that

[300 + (380 * 3.2)] * 6.25 * 1.15 = 10,896

Which is fairly close. I was kind of hoping for a more generous formula, I don't see this one having a significant boost for magic at all. It's quite similar for your second post.

[300 + (192 * 3.2)] * 6.25 * 1.15 = 6572

Edit: 6572 / 6.25 (1 charge) is 1051. They're all fairly close.
ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 15:54

Quote from Kaeporo;1141414:
Throughout Mabinogi, Blaze has either been incredibly broken or basically useless. Regardless, it does require some coordination and it's not particularly reliable. While it would be useful in the martial arts tournament, it's simply too impractical to be efficient when you can effortlessly kill enemies with other skills.

A similar comparison can be made between Human and Elf ranged efficiency. Elf Magnum Shot might completely dominate Human w/e concerning DPS but there really aren't very many places where that improved damage output actually matters.

That video cut right before the final with the Tarlach+bear/Price/etc waves. I wonder how he planning to do that wave with icespear + blaze combo when neither can be frozen :point: *roll eye*
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-28 15:57

Quote from Zekkii;1141416:
[300 + (380 * 3.2)] * 6.25 * 1.15 = 10,896

Which is fairly close. I was kind of hoping for a more generous formula, I don't see this one having a significant boost for magic at all. It's quite similar for your second post.

[300 + (192 * 3.2)] * 6.25 * 1.15 = 6572

Edit: 6572 / 6.25 (1 charge) is 1051. They're all fairly close.

That's what I was figuring as well. I guess this formula will still hold then.
ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 15:58

Quote from Kingofrunes;1141419:
That's what I was figuring as well. I guess this formula will still hold then.

You need to somehow get a hold of the people that pull off 40k hailstorm and ask them what gear/stats they have :D

It probally extremely difficult but it will be the easiest way?
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-28 16:05

Quote from ewire123;1141420:
You need to somehow get a hold of the people that pull off 40k hailstorm and ask them what gear/stats they have :D

It probally extremely difficult but it will be the easiest way?

Already figured it out actually.

[11:09:57 AM] ca25nada: the magic attack pot gives +80
[11:10:08 AM] ca25nada: meteor strike master gives +50
+40 Magic attack from Scath title
+68 Magic Attack from s5
+36 Magic Attack from Hermit staff Upgrades
+80 Magic Attack from Level 20 Magic Attack Reforge
1500 Int

300 + 80 + 50 + 40 + 68 + 36 + 80 = 654

(300 + (654 * 3.2)) * 1.15
2,392.8 * 1.15 = 2751.72 single charge * 6.25 = 17,198.25 non crit * 2.5 = 42,995.625

I threw s6 and Rosemary gloves into the mix and came out to 51k crit
ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 16:07

Quote from Kingofrunes;1141423:
Already figured it out actually.

[11:09:57 AM] ca25nada: the magic attack pot gives +80
[11:10:08 AM] ca25nada: meteor strike master gives +50
+40 Magic attack from Scath title
+68 Magic Attack from s5
+36 Magic Attack from Hermit staff Upgrades
+80 Magic Attack from Level 20 Magic Attack Reforge
1500 Int

300 + 80 + 50 + 40 + 68 + 36 + 80 = 654

(300 + (654 * 3.2)) * 1.15
2,392.8 * 1.15 = 2751.72 single charge * 6.25 = 17,198.25 non crit * 2.5 = 42,995.625

Nice. Finally solved the mysteries. Is that without hailstorm max reforge? So that mean you can even hit higher than 40k?
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-28 16:10

Quote from ewire123;1141425:
Nice. Finally solved the mysteries. Is that without hailstorm max reforge? So that mean you can even hit higher than 40k?

That's without hailstorm max. If you can manage to pull off both level 20 magic attack reforge and a decent hailstorm max reforge you will be a very happy hailstorm user. Especially if your hermit staff is s6

Wish I knew what madness the chinese were doing to get their magic attack so high Pre-Zero.

75 + 20 (magic pot) + 10(soaked) + 4(witch) + 3(Treasure) + 5 (mana hammer) + 2(Mana Needle) + 4(Island) + 5(Apethetic) = 128 + 20(if they did level 20 magic attack reforge) = 148.

Seeing that magic attack reforge can go on gloves, accessory, and staves, it's possible that they used that to get to 158.

Seeing that Magic Attack Reforges get multiplied by 4. that can turn into a lot of extra magic attack post zero. Does anyone know the max magic attack you can get on accessories? Is it 20? If so that would add 40 * 4 = 160 extra magic attack which when thrown into hailstorm...

654 + 160 = 814 * 3.2 = 2,604.8 + 300 = 2,904.8 * 1.3 = 3,776.24 * 6.25 = 23,601.5 * 2.5 = 59,003.75.

Phew...
ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 16:17

Quote from Kingofrunes;1141426:
That's without hailstorm max. If you can manage to pull off both level 20 magic attack reforge and a decent hailstorm max reforge you will be a very happy hailstorm user. Especially if your hermit staff is s6

*Assuming with a lvl 20 Hailstorm max :

(500+ (654*3.2))*1.15
= 2981.72 single charge *6.25 = 18635.75 full charge non-crit

18635.73 * 2.5 = 46,589.375 full charge crit.

*Assume you went with 5R instead of 5S :

(500+(586*3.2))*1.15
= 2731.48 single charge *6.25 = 17071.75 full charge non-crit

17071.75*3 = 51215.25 full charge crit

So 5R can hit 50k hailstorm. While 5S can hit 46k but higher non-crit damage.

*Did not count in rosemary glove, which could boost even higher.*
radionoise wrote on 2013-08-28 16:21

Additionally, ppl still spam blues for magic weapons instead of red in KR.
ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 16:27

Quote from radionoise;1141431:
Additionally, ppl still spam blues for magic weapons instead of red in KR.

Which make sense since after revamp, Magic crit will be so high it KO 99% of game content.

But I enjoy looking at high damage crit number so yeah....still gonna R-type.
Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-28 16:36

I had thought that the charge multiplier only affected the spell damage portion of the formula, not both the spell damage and magic attack portions.

+80 Magic Attack via Magic Attack Potion
+68 Magic Attack via S5 Special Upgrade
+24 Magic Attack via Hermit Upgrades
+48 Magic Attack via 12 level Reforge
+240 Magic Attack via Intelligence

"Old"
(460 * 6.25 + (460*3.2))*1.15 = 5k or 12.5k w/crit, 14.3k w/rosemaries

"New"
(460 + (460*3.2))*1.15*6.25 = 13.8k or 35k w/crit, 40k w/rosemaries
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-28 16:38

As far as my calculations have been going. It seems that the charge multiplier is applied afterwards. Everything has been in the approx range for it.

Anyways I'll update the OP accordingly to avoid confusion about the charge multiplier

Quote from Kaeporo;1141439:
I had thought that the charge multiplier only affected the spell damage portion of the formula, not both the spell damage and magic attack portions.

+80 Magic Attack via Magic Attack Potion
+68 Magic Attack via S5 Special Upgrade
+24 Magic Attack via Hermit Upgrades
+48 Magic Attack via 12 level Reforge
+240 Magic Attack via Intelligence

"Old"
(460 * 6.25 + (460*3.2))*1.15 = 5k or 12.5k w/crit, 14.3k w/rosemaries

"New"
(460 + (460*3.2))*1.15*6.25 = 13.8k or 35k w/crit, 40k w/rosemaries

Which pretty much matches up pretty close to what ca was hitting with 360 magic attack (27k crit)
Zekkii wrote on 2013-08-28 16:47

[spoiler=Ice Spear]So say you have a 28% magic damage S6 crown ice with ice spear max 20, ice mastery level 20 headgear, rosemaries, ice mastery title, 70 magic attack, and r1 all relevant skills. This is currently 340 * 6.5 * 1.21 * 2.1 * 1.28 * 1.1 = 7906 damage with Ice Spear.

This should be converted to 200 magic attack from intelligence (1000), 20 magic attack from enchants, 84 magic attack from special upgrades, 28 magic attack from normal upgrades, and 50% Ice elemental damage. It should do [340 + (332 * 1.4)] * 6.5 * 1.5 = 7846.8 damage with Ice Spear. That's actually not as bad as I thought I suppose, considering you get a free 15% speed from magic mastery and you could better optimize your damage for the future update. You would want to reroll the reforge for magic attack 20 though because it offers 80 * 1.4 = 112 base damage as well as full damage for every spell. Of course this goes better with a hermit or savage.[/spoiler]

Now just for a more general look, I'll throw out some random numbers for comparison. Assuming you're wearing rosemary gloves, meteor strike title, 400 magic attack, all of your spells will come out as (all max charge):

[spoiler=Numbers]
THUNDER
[400 + (400 * 2.1)] * 1.15 * 6 = 8556

ICE SPEAR
[240 + (400 * 1.4)] * 1.3 * 6.5 = 6760

FIREBALL
[2400 + (400 * 12)] * 1.15 = 8280

HAILSTORM
[300 + (400 * 3.2)] * 6.25 * 1.3 = 12837

SHOCKWAVE
[400 + (400 * 5)] * 1.15 = 2760

FIREBOLT
[120 + (400 * 0.5)] * 1.3 (bolt mastery included) * 2.5 (magic weapon mastery) * 6.5 = 6760

ICEBOLT
[80 + (400 * 0.4) * 1.45 * 2.5 = 870 (per charge)

LIGHTNING BOLT
[150 + (400 * 0.6) * 1.3 * 2.5 = 1267[/spoiler]

There's also something to be said about fusion. Same numbers as above:
[spoiler=+#]
FIRE-ICE
1 charge = (1040 + 870) * 1.15 = 2196
2 charge = [(1040 *2) + 870] * 1.15 = 3392
3 charge = [(1040 *3) + 870] * 1.15 = 4588
4 charge = [(1040 *4) + 870] * 1.15 = 5784
5 charge = [(1040 *5) + 870] * 1.15 * 1.3 = 9074

FIRE-LIGHTNING
1 charge = (1040 + 1267) * 1.15 = 2653
2 charge = [(1040 *2) + 1267] * 1.15 = 3849
3 charge = [(1040 *3) + 1267] * 1.15 = 5045
4 charge = [(1040 *4) + 1267] * 1.15 = 6241
5 charge = [(1040 *5) + 1267] * 1.15 * 1.3 = 9668

ICE-LIGHTNING
(1267 + 870) * 1.15 = 2457
[/spoiler]

Just for fun, here's some potential numbers with 500 magic attack and completely maxed out sets (hermit only):

[spoiler=More numbers]
THUNDER
[400 + (500 * 2.1)] * (1 + 0.15 (lightning mastery) + 0.1 (head lightning reforge) + 0.1 (lightning mastery title)) * 6 = 11745

ICE SPEAR
[240 + (500 *1.4)] * (1 + 0.15 (ice mastery) + 0.15 (rosemary) + 0.1 (head ice reforge) + 0.1 ice mastery title)) * 6.5 = 9165

FIREBALL
[2400 + (500 * 12)] * (1 + 0.15 (fire mastery) + 0.1 (head fire reforge) + 0.1 (fire mastery title)) = 11340

HAILSTORM
[300 + (500 * 3.2)] * (1 + 0.15 (ice mastery) + 0.15 (rosemary) + 0.1 (head ice reforge) + 0.1 ice mastery title)) * 6.25 = 17812

SHOCKWAVE
[400 + (500 * 5)] * (1 + 0.15 (lightning mastery) + 0.1 (head lightning reforge) + 0.1 (lightning mastery title)) = 3915

FIREBOLT
[120 + (500 * 0.5)] * (1 + 0.15 (fire mastery) + 0.15 (bolt mastery) + 0.15 (hebona set) + 0.2 (bolt mastery reforge) + 0.15 bolt mastery title) * 6.5 * 2.5 = 10822[/spoiler]

The only thing I'm lost on now is blaze and meteor strike. Not sure how you would go about calculating those.
Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-28 16:53

[PRE]Ice Spear 0.45-1.4
Hail Storm 1.6-3.2[/PRE]
Crown Ice Wand:
+80 Magic Attack via Magic Attack Potion
+68 Magic Attack via S5 Special Upgrade
+28 Magic Attack via Crown Upgrades
+90 Skill Damage via 18 level Reforge
+192 Magic Attack via Intelligence

(330 + (368*1.4))*1.15*6.5*2.5 = 15.8k

Hermit Staff:
+80 Magic Attack via Magic Attack Potion
+68 Magic Attack via S5 Special Upgrade
+24 Magic Attack via Hermit Upgrades
+48 Magic Attack via 12 level Reforge
+240 Magic Attack via Intelligence

(240 + (460*1.4))*1.15*6.5*2.5 = 16.5k

Well, it looks like I can throw away my Crown Ice Wand, Crystal Lightning Wand, and Trinity Staff now that my Hermit Staff outclasses all of them. I'll probably keep the Phoenix Fire Wand.
ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-28 17:03

Quote from Kaeporo;1141449:
[PRE]Ice Spear 0.45-1.4
Hail Storm 1.6-3.2[/PRE]
Crown Ice Wand:
+80 Magic Attack via Magic Attack Potion
+68 Magic Attack via S5 Special Upgrade
+28 Magic Attack via Crown Upgrades
+90 Skill Damage via 18 level Reforge
+192 Magic Attack via Intelligence

(330 + (368*1.4))*1.15*6.5*2.5 = 15.8k

Hermit Staff:
+80 Magic Attack via Magic Attack Potion
+68 Magic Attack via S5 Special Upgrade
+24 Magic Attack via Hermit Upgrades
+48 Magic Attack via 12 level Reforge
+240 Magic Attack via Intelligence

(240 + (460*1.4))*1.15*6.5*2.5 = 16.5k

Well, it looks like I can throw away my Crown Ice Wand, Crystal Lightning Wand, and Trinity Staff now that my Hermit Staff outclasses all of them. I'll probably keep the Phoenix Fire Wand.

Wand is still useful for hybrid with alchemy or extra defense/mp regen with akule mask. Or for ice spear blaze combo.

Trinity staff pre reforge r1 is still still good , until they release pre r1 hermit.

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