[Mabinogi] Zero Merlin Update (Information Consolidated and Organized)

• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-09-01 10:43

  Quote from Gensokyou;1142862:

  Darn. T>Nation Gold and Reps for comprehensive ego wand info pre and post zero.

  
  
  Wish I could really help there but Ego Wands are the least researched and have the least known mechanics out of any of the other ego weapons. mostly due to how needlessly complex devcat designed magic.
  
  I don't really think we know much about pre zero ego wands only that they are outclasses by other wands upgraded for magic damage. Also the fact that max damage does factor into firebolt damage for current ego wands.
• Snowie Stormflower wrote on 2013-09-01 10:47

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1142857:

  1. Repetitive damage skills ( Firebolt, IS, Hailstorm):
  [Skill base damage+bonus damage from Magic Attack x magic attack] x Number of charges
  Singe damages (like Icebolt, Thunder, Fireball, shockwave, etc):
  [Skill base damage + bonus damage from Magic attack x magic attack]
  Special damage skill (Blaze):
  [Skill base damage x (Magic Attack x multiplier) x Comba wand bonus (12) x Magic mastery bonus x down gauge effect] (Still waiting on additional info)
  

  
  
  What's the difference between 'bonus from magic attack' and 'magic attack'?
  Also, Blaze's base damage is still unknown?
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-09-01 10:49

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1143015:

  What's the difference between 'bonus from magic attack' and 'magic attack'?
  Also, Blaze's base damage is still unknown?

  
  
  Yes, Blaze's base damage is still unknown. Also I'm going to go with bonus from magic attack being the coefficient as we have already demonstrated works in the current formula.
  
  Blaze's base damage isn't found in the files where we can pull that info on and in game doesn't list them either. Which means it's entirely buried in the game's code.
  
  It's like the dev's want to make it nearly impossible for anyone to adequately plan their magic :/
  
  Back on the subject of ego's. As far as I can tell. Ego's Post Zero have had 0 change. They have the exact same effects as they did previously. The main difference is that the wands that outclassed it due (if at all) to magic damage don't outclass it as much due to the change to magic attack.
  
  For Example, let's say you get an extra 100 Magic Attack from the Hermit Staff. In order for a fire wand to outclass it with firebolt it would only need to add 51 firebolt damage to the formula due to the .5 coefficient of firebolt on magic attack.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-01 11:09
  Hmm...
  
  King, did you say social plays a factor too?
  
  I'm kind of interested in trying to learn about this. However, would this thread really be an adequate discussion topic for ego wands?
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-09-01 11:10

  Quote from Gensokyou;1143019:

  Hmm...
  
  King, did you say social plays a factor too?
  
  I'm kind of interested in trying to learn about this. However, would this thread really be an adequate discussion topic for ego wands?

  
  
  I was mistaken on the social bit. No impact between 15 social and 21 social.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-01 11:15

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1143020:

  I was mistaken on the social bit. No impact between 15 social and 21 social.

  
  
  Okay, that's great to hear in retrospect.
• Johny wrote on 2013-09-01 17:59

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1143014:

  Wish I could really help there but Ego Wands are the least researched and have the least known mechanics out of any of the other ego weapons. mostly due to how needlessly complex devcat designed magic.
  
  I don't really think we know much about pre zero ego wands only that they are outclasses by other wands upgraded for magic damage. Also the fact that max damage does factor into firebolt damage for current ego wands.

  
  
  If I may add my 2 cents here...
  
  I did research on ego wands a while back and found that ego wands add the min-max damage listed on their weapon description as well as the normal wand bonus to bolt magic. I.e the ego wands physical damage influences the wands respective bolt magic. This however does not affect intermediate magic.
  
  example: normal ice wand compared to ego ice wand with 10~ 20 damage. Normal ice wand will add the +10 icebolt damage as expected. However, an ego ice wand will add that +10 to icebolt AND the 10~20 damage from its physical.
  
  The above applies to all ego wands. However, since its the chaincasting ego wands that get increases to their physical damage, those are the wands that get the most respectable increases in damage, bolt wise. However they are also the most limited, as they are chain casting wands, they don't allow for fusion bolt.
  
  Now in the case of firebolt, the extra ego damage is added after the charge multiplier as shown in this example of the current magic formula; ((magic base+magic base reforge+(max damage enchant*enchant coefficiant)*charge multiplier)+wandbonus+egowandphysprop)*......
  
  egowandphysprop meaning the ego wands physical damage. that being said this only applies to bolt magic, if i may remind you. Now this means that ego wand damage is simply aggregated to the bolt damage base, and is not stacked by charge multipliers. however it is still affected by the magic attack multipliers. In laymans terms, if a normal fire wands do 1600 full power firebolt, then an ego firewand does 1750 damage instead of say...2000 damage.
  
  I hope that helps alleviate confusion. fell free to ask questions. i'll answer when i can.
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-09-01 18:42

  Quote from Johny;1143119:

  *snip*

  
  
  I'm a tad disappointed that this doesn't apply to INT magic...
  
  
  So wait, an INT magic wand ego (crown ice wand) would also give it's min/max dmg to ice bolts dmg?
• Johny wrote on 2013-09-01 19:01

  Quote from Slayerj;1143128:

  I'm a tad disappointed that this doesn't apply to INT magic...
  
  
  So wait, an INT magic wand ego (crown ice wand) would also give it's min/max dmg to ice bolts dmg?

  
  
  Yes. Even the ego int wands add their physical damage to bolt magic. However its only to their respective bolt. On the bright side, the + magic damage% applies to all magic including intermediate magic
• ewire123 wrote on 2013-09-01 23:03
  Int ego wand add magic damage, crit damage, cast speed, and mana usage reduction as well. I own a lvl 36 soc crystal lightning wand myself.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-01 23:56

  Quote from Johny;1143119:

  If I may add my 2 cents here...
  
  I did research on ego wands a while back and found that ego wands add the min-max damage listed on their weapon description as well as the normal wand bonus to bolt magic. I.e the ego wands physical damage influences the wands respective bolt magic. This however does not affect intermediate magic.
  
  example: normal ice wand compared to ego ice wand with 10~ 20 damage. Normal ice wand will add the +10 icebolt damage as expected. However, an ego ice wand will add that +10 to icebolt AND the 10~20 damage from its physical.
  
  The above applies to all ego wands. However, since its the chaincasting ego wands that get increases to their physical damage, those are the wands that get the most respectable increases in damage, bolt wise. However they are also the most limited, as they are chain casting wands, they don't allow for fusion bolt.
  
  Now in the case of firebolt, the extra ego damage is added after the charge multiplier as shown in this example of the current magic formula; ((magic base+magic base reforge+(max damage enchant*enchant coefficiant)*charge multiplier)+wandbonus+egowandphysprop)*......
  
  egowandphysprop meaning the ego wands physical damage. that being said this only applies to bolt magic, if i may remind you. Now this means that ego wand damage is simply aggregated to the bolt damage base, and is not stacked by charge multipliers. however it is still affected by the magic attack multipliers. In laymans terms, if a normal fire wands do 1600 full power firebolt, then an ego firewand does 1750 damage instead of say...2000 damage.
  
  I hope that helps alleviate confusion. fell free to ask questions. i'll answer when i can.

  
  
  That's the conclusion then the cat and I came to after doing some testing.
  
  The real question is, why would KR use it over a normal wand then?
• Johny wrote on 2013-09-02 00:55

  Quote from Gensokyou;1143216:

  That's the conclusion then the cat and I came to after doing some testing.
  
  The real question is, why would KR use it over a normal wand then?

  
  
  Ehh, don't have to repair it as often. That's a plus. 2) It serves as a good back up. 3) Just because I guess.
  
  However I do agree that they are going to be very outclassed post-renewal. Hermit staff, savage wands are going to reign.
  
  I dislike how lazy DevCat has been in terms of actually renewing ego weapons, considering they are one of the aspects of the game that showed a lot of potential. Ego weapons, all of them, are still caught in pre g13 standards, only having that one skill "spirit awakening" buffed up to boot. There are so many things DevCat can do with ego weapons, but they really haven't worked on them at all, for what I know. It's disappointing.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-02 00:57

  Quote from Johny;1143231:

  Ehh, don't have to repair it as often. That's a plus. 2) It serves as a good back up. 3) Just because I guess.
  
  However I do agree that they are going to be very outclassed post-renewal. Hermit staff, savage wands are going to reign.
  
  I dislike how lazy DevCat has been in terms of actually renewing ego weapons, considering they are one of the aspects of the game that showed a lot of potential. Ego weapons, all of them, are still caught in pre g13 standards, only having that one skill "spirit awakening" buffed up to boot. There are so many things DevCat can do with ego weapons, but they really haven't worked on them at all, for what I know. It's disappointing.

  
  
  It's KR though. I don't see why people would run around with egos and use them in vids if other wands were better.
• Johny wrote on 2013-09-02 01:01

  Quote from Gensokyou;1143232:

  It's KR though. I don't see why people would run around with egos and use them in vids if other wands were better.

  
  
  Hmm. Could be that since the +magic damage was left as a multiplier instead of converted to magic atk.
  
  Either that or it could just be a hype.
  
  *Shrugs* Who knows. We'll have to wait and see what renewal brings.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-02 02:01

  Quote from Johny;1143233:

  Hmm. Could be that since the +magic damage was left as a multiplier instead of converted to magic atk.
  
  Either that or it could just be a hype.
  
  *Shrugs* Who knows. We'll have to wait and see what renewal brings.

  
  
  Assume S6 wand with 16 matk (easily done)
  
  (120+100*0.5)*6.5 = 1105
  
  Now assume a 100 max ego wand
  
  (120)*6.5+100= 780
  
  We can eliminate everything else for the sake of comparison as it won't make a difference.
  
  So, what I would propose for someone on KR testing team if they could find the time:
  
  Seeing as the formula is currently added after the charges, perhaps they could test it and find out what it is on KR. If the damage is now added to the base damage or still after the charges.
  
  Another thing of interest would be if it's added before or after magic weapon mastery.
  
  If someone could test that, that'd be great.