[Mabinogi] Zero Merlin Update (Information Consolidated and Organized)

• Johny wrote on 2013-09-02 02:15

  Quote from Gensokyou;1143247:

  Assume S6 wand with 16 matk (easily done)
  
  (120+100*0.5)*6.5 = 1105
  
  Now assume a 100 max ego wand
  
  (120)*6.5+100= 780

  
  
  Please elaborate on this more, I'm not sure you're trying to do here....
  
  

  We can eliminate everything else for the sake of comparison as it won't make a difference.
  
  So, what I would propose for someone on KR testing team if they could find the time:
  
  Seeing as the formula is currently added after the charges, perhaps they could test it and find out what it is on KR. If the damage is now added to the base damage or still after the charges.
  
  Another thing of interest would be if it's added before or after magic weapon mastery.
  
  If someone could test that, that'd be great.

  
  
  It might now stack up in the new formula due to the fact that the charge multiplier got moved towards the end of the formula instead of way in the beginning. However this is just my hypothesis. If the above is true, then expect a large difference in damages...Otherwise, no.
  
  Also, a question that has been bugging me. Is the % increase of the " Magic Master" title still the same or did it get converted to magic attack? Thanks.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-02 02:34

  Quote from Johny;1143254:

  Please elaborate on this more, I'm not sure you're trying to do here....

  
  
  Formula from OP:
  
  Max Damage = (Max Base Damage + (Skill Factor * Magic Attack)) * (1+[Bolt Mastery + Magic Weapon Mastery(If Magic weapon is equipped and you are using a bolt) + Element Mastery + Title bonus]) * Charge Multiplier
  
  Special upgrades now give Matk, so a S6 wand with 16 MAtk from upgrades would give you 100 matk. The skill factor is 0.5 for firebolt.
  
  We can ignore bolt mastery, magic weapon mastery, element mastery and title bonuses for the sake of comparison, since that just ends up being multiplied by a constant.
  
  So basically, what we have is:
  
  (Base damage + (spell constant * matk)) * Charge multiplier
  
  

  Assume S6 wand with 16 matk (easily done)
  
  (120+100*0.5)*6.5 = 1105
  
  Now assume a 100 max ego wand
  
  (120)*6.5+100= 780

  
  
  Hope that helps.
  
  

  It might now stack up in the new formula due to the fact that the charge multiplier got moved towards the end of the formula instead of way in the beginning. However this is just my hypothesis. If the above is true, then expect a large difference in damages...Otherwise, no.

  
  
  By "stacking up", do you mean normal wands to ego wands, or vice versa?
  
  Because the later in the formula the charge multiplier is, the less damage you'll recieve from an ego wand, as seen in the previous calcs.
• Johny wrote on 2013-09-02 02:56

  Quote from Gensokyou;1143259:

  Formula from OP:
  
  Max Damage = (Max Base Damage + (Skill Factor * Magic Attack)) * (1+[Bolt Mastery + Magic Weapon Mastery(If Magic weapon is equipped and you are using a bolt) + Element Mastery + Title bonus]) * Charge Multiplier
  
  Special upgrades now give Matk, so a S6 wand with 16 MAtk from upgrades would give you 100 matk. The skill factor is 0.5 for firebolt.
  
  We can ignore bolt mastery, magic weapon mastery, element mastery and title bonuses for the sake of comparison, since that just ends up being multiplied by a constant.
  
  So basically, what we have is:
  
  (Base damage + (spell constant * matk)) * Charge multiplier
  
  
  
  Hope that helps.

  Ahh ok, thanks.
  
  
  
  

  By "stacking up", do you mean normal wands to ego wands, or vice versa?
  
  Because the later in the formula the charge multiplier is, the less damage you'll recieve from an ego wand, as seen in the previous calcs.

  
  
  I meant the damage increase being added to the bolt magic's base damage before charge multiplier comes into play.
  
  I'm going to borrow your example if I may with the +100 magic atk fire wand
  
  (120+5+(100*0.5))*6.5=1137.5
  
  Now ego wand with +100 damage, if and only if ego wand damage is added before charge multiplier=
  
  (120+100+5+(0*.5))*6.5=1462.5
  
  The +5 is from the normal wand bonus that they give to bolt magic, in the case of firebolt its +5 from firewand.
  
  Now in this case, we'd see a notable difference in damage, however, who knows if this is the case. this is just a hypothesis after all.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-02 04:16

  Quote from Johny;1143264:

  I meant the damage increase being added to the bolt magic's base damage before charge multiplier comes into play.
  
  I'm going to borrow your example if I may with the +100 magic atk fire wand
  
  (120+5+(100*0.5))*6.5=1137.5
  
  Now ego wand with +100 damage, if and only if ego wand damage is added before charge multiplier=
  
  (120+100+5+(0*.5))*6.5=1462.5
  
  The +5 is from the normal wand bonus that they give to bolt magic, in the case of firebolt its +5 from firewand.
  
  Now in this case, we'd see a notable difference in damage, however, who knows if this is the case. this is just a hypothesis after all.

  
  
  Yeah, that's what we were originally led to believe earlier on in the thread, but it turns out that wasn't the case.
  
  That's what we're hoping for after the update. It'd be a lot better if that was the case, because then my 50 max ego wand would be just as good as an S6 +16 savage wand then.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-09-02 11:06

  Quote from Johny;1143119:

  if a normal fire wands do 1600 full power firebolt, then an ego firewand does 1750 damage instead of say...2000 damage.

  
  
  Somebody didn't see my test with base ego wand vs. regular fire wand on raccoons. There was a 300 damage difference.
  
  [spoiler="Personal Test Results"]
  https://docs.google.com/a/kingofrunes.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArQ0l2OlMSwZdHVZVEhFNE84RlUyTVFqamhoaDBWeFE#gid=0
  [/spoiler]
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-02 11:18

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1143358:

  Somebody didn't see my test with base ego wand vs. regular fire wand on raccoons. There was a 300 damage difference.
  
  [spoiler="Personal Test Results"]
  https://docs.google.com/a/kingofrunes.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArQ0l2OlMSwZdHVZVEhFNE84RlUyTVFqamhoaDBWeFE#gid=0
  [/spoiler]

  
  
  nevermind derped.
  
  gonna give this a crack in a little bit.
  
  EDIT:
  
  Okay, so:
  
  

  r9 firebolt, 64 magic attack, r7 fire mastery, r 1 bolt mastery, and r2 magic weapon mastery

  
  
  So non-ego wand gives us:
  
  (45+5+64*0.5)*(1+.15+.09+1.4)*6.5
  
  =1.4k
  
  Wat.
  
  I derped somewhere. I'm betting on it.
  
  Gotta mine, too lazy. I'll take another look at it later, unless someone can pull me up.
• Snowie Stormflower wrote on 2013-09-02 12:19

  Quote from Gensokyou;1143360:

  nevermind derped.
  
  gonna give this a crack in a little bit.
  
  EDIT:
  
  Okay, so:
  
  
  
  So non-ego wand gives us:
  
  (45+12+5+64*0.5)*(1+.15+.09+1.4)*6.5
  
  =1,613.04
  
  Wat.
  
  I derped somewhere. I'm betting on it.

  
  
  Common mistake, you forgot the base damage of the wand.
  Although I'm not sure if I put it in the right place.
  Missing information is KoR's reforges and max damage enchants, or even the possibility that it's not a base grade wand.
  
  If anything, it would be a weird surprise if +Max from Combat Mastery or other skills had a slight effect, as well.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-02 12:26

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1143363:

  Common mistake, you forgot the base damage of the wand.
  Although I'm not sure if I put it in the right place.
  Missing information is KoR's reforges and max damage enchants, or even the possibility that it's not a base grade wand.
  
  If anything, it would be a weird surprise if +Max from Combat Mastery or other skills had a slight effect, as well.

  
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/4hcZU/9c54df1e28.png]

  
  
  So we're still missing something.
  
  Also, when the cat and I tested, we didnt need to add the max damage from my non-ego wand.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-09-02 12:39

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1143363:

  Common mistake, you forgot the base damage of the wand.
  Although I'm not sure if I put it in the right place.
  Missing information is KoR's reforges and max damage enchants, or even the possibility that it's not a base grade wand.
  

  
  Clean all the way. Only upgrades on the wand is CC+4. Well I did do a few damage upgrades which brought it to 20 max. But still no enchants are reforges
  
  Ego is base stats and clean aside from social being leveled. Also no regorges
  
  Also I tested this with: r9 firebolt, 64 magic attack, r7 fire mastery, r 1 bolt mastery, and r2 magic weapon mastery
• Snowie Stormflower wrote on 2013-09-02 12:44
  Also Genso, what's that 0.5 in the formula supposed to be?
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-02 12:44

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1143368:

  Clean all the way. Only upgrades on the wand is CC+4. Well I did do a few damage upgrades which brought it to 20 max. But still no enchants are reforges
  
  Ego is base stats and clean aside from social being leveled. Also no regorges
  
  Also I tested this with: r9 firebolt, 64 magic attack, r7 fire mastery, r 1 bolt mastery, and r2 magic weapon mastery

  
  
  Still not sure what's going on, those are the stats that I used when calculating.
  
  Is the formula different for bolts, or what? Any thoughts?
  
  EDIT@Snowie: The tests are post-zero, and the 0.5 is the matk coefficiant for firebolt.
• Snowie Stormflower wrote on 2013-09-02 13:00
  Then what about the +5? I saw Johny mention it was some sort of wand bonus, but couldn't they have changed that value with Zero?
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-09-02 13:06

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1143373:

  Then what about the +5? I saw Johny mention it was some sort of wand bonus, but couldn't they have changed that value with Zero?

  
  
  Yes, it's possible that was changed. I would need to test my icebolt wand vs my firebolt wand though before I come to a conclusion and as I'm busy with gunner on NA all of these tests will have to be left unanswered until I burn through my 320 AP
  
  Cause I'm the only one on the Test team working on magic. Everyone else is focusing on organizing Diva, Professor J, and the other stuff.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-02 13:38

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1143373:

  Then what about the +5? I saw Johny mention it was some sort of wand bonus, but couldn't they have changed that value with Zero?

  
  
  The +5 is the extra damage you gain from using a wand. It's listed on the wiki, under the magic formula, and it DOES exist.
  
  

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1143374:

  Yes, it's possible that was changed. I would need to test my icebolt wand vs my firebolt wand though before I come to a conclusion and as I'm busy with gunner on NA all of these tests will have to be left unanswered until I burn through my 320 AP
  
  Cause I'm the only one on the Test team working on magic. Everyone else is focusing on organizing Diva, Professor J, and the other stuff.

  
  
  I'm going to not so humbly request that some people be allocated to magic because we need people working on important things.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-09-02 13:43

  Quote from Gensokyou;1143380:

  I'm going to not so humbly request that some people be allocated to magic because we need people working on important things.

  
  
  To be fair, the other stuff is equally as important. Magic is not the only revamp you know. I'm sorry but you don't get to decide what's important to the team. We don't even have many people to gather the Treasure Hunter and Chef stuff aside from Vejosa, Herro, and me.
  
  Herro is busy with a lot of things, Vejosa is barely around, so that leaves me for that. But anyways, I'm getting side tracked with the logistics.
  
  Bottom line is, we don't have enough accounts and have to share as is to test stuff. Thus with all of us having lives, and so little resources to spare, there's only so much we can test and how many people we can dedicate to a project.
  
  Also we only have like 3 other people actively testing stuff on KR test to be honest and they are busy organizing Diva which we still haven't finished putting together.
  
  And that's between school, life, and doing their own things. so what you are requesting is simply out of the question unless you can magically poop out some usable KR accounts out of thin air.