[Mabinogi] Zero Merlin Update (Information Consolidated and Organized)

• Tropa wrote on 2013-09-06 16:24

  Quote from Gensokyou;1144952:

  I'd love to but they nerfed healing. Can't assist you there. ;_;

  
  
  I would lifedrain myself back to health, but they nerfed Alchemy.
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-09-06 16:33

  Quote from Tropa;1144954:

  I would lifedrain myself back to health, but they nerfed Alchemy.

  
  
  *hands you an HP 300* I hope that's enough T,T; nb4 pot nerf :p...
  
  But srsly, I, one of the most bitchiest mages I know, don't see how this is a nerf. Sure mobile cast is a pain in the ass and now I have to rank refine then prod mastery to have some SP to BURN THROUGH...but eh.
• Kenero wrote on 2013-09-06 18:28
  Excuse me~!
  
  Healing Master Race.
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/4kBcT.jpg]
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-09-06 19:09

  Quote from Kenero;1144999:

  Excuse me~!
  
  Healing Master Race.
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/4kBcT.jpg]

  
  
  A[S]nd the most voted nation member for being insane goes to....Kenero the doctor![/S]
  
  I hope they revamp healing talent one day lol
• Magenera wrote on 2013-09-06 19:17

  Quote from Gensokyou;1144854:

  That's right.
  
  Generally, now, Int enchants are much better.
  
  And that's saying something, seeing as how you'll be closer to the int cap. o.x

  
  Was there ever a reason for why they didn't boost Magic Attack by 4 like the rest?
• Syr wrote on 2013-09-06 19:18

  Quote from Slayerj;1145019:

  A[S]nd the most voted nation member for being insane goes to....Kenero the doctor![/S]
  
  I hope they revamp healing talent one day lol

  
  
  Holy Arts talent, why not introduce holy-based magic DevCat!?
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-06 20:30
  It's not a straight buff, far from it. A considerable amount of people will be nerfed; take 600 intelligence r1 ice mastery s5 hermit staff with +29% magic damage and IS 20 reforge, and 15 magic attack from enchants:
  
  PRE
  340 * 1.17 * 1.60 * 1.1 * 1.29 * 6.5 = 5870 damage
  
  POST
  [340 + (232 * 1.4)] * 1.15 * 6.5 = 4969 damage
  
  They key point being that wand upgrades, magic damage enchants, and magic reforges are all nerfed so what you rely on is generally high intelligence for high damage.
• ewire123 wrote on 2013-09-06 21:56

  Quote from Magenera;1145021:

  Was there ever a reason for why they didn't boost Magic Attack by 4 like the rest?

  
  Because it would be OP.
  
  Take soaked es for example, it give +10, and will give +40 magic attack if they X4 the enchant....
  
  Devcat will release new enchant that replaces the old one anyway, eventually...
• Johny wrote on 2013-09-06 23:01

  Quote from Zekkii;1145053:

  It's not a straight buff, far from it. A considerable amount of people will be nerfed; take 600 intelligence r1 ice mastery s5 hermit staff with +29% magic damage and IS 20 reforge, and 15 magic attack from enchants:
  
  PRE
  340 * 1.17 * 1.60 * 1.1 * 1.29 * 6.5 = 5870 damage
  
  POST
  [340 + (232 * 1.4)] * 1.15 * 6.5 = 4969 damage
  
  They key point being that wand upgrades, magic damage enchants, and magic reforges are all nerfed so what you rely on is generally high intelligence for high damage.

  
  
  So basically, its like pre- g13 where you really don't need enchants or top equips for high magic damage, except with a much better formula
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-06 23:18

  Quote from Zekkii;1145053:

  It's not a straight buff, far from it. A considerable amount of people will be nerfed; take 600 intelligence r1 ice mastery s5 hermit staff with +29% magic damage and IS 20 reforge, and 15 magic attack from enchants:
  
  PRE
  340 * 1.17 * 1.60 * 1.1 * 1.29 * 6.5 = 5870 damage
  
  POST
  [340 + (232 * 1.4)] * 1.15 * 6.5 = 4969 damage
  
  They key point being that wand upgrades, magic damage enchants, and magic reforges are all nerfed so what you rely on is generally high intelligence for high damage.

  
  
  Except you go wow shazam fast and can actually cast your spell.
  
  I sense some alterior motive kitty. Ice spear and that low co-efficiant.
  
  And before anyone says anything about ice spear charging fast, 8 seconds is still relativly slow in the metagame. Faster the better.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-07 04:14

  Quote from Gensokyou;1145093:

  Except you go wow shazam fast and can actually cast your spell.
  
  I sense some alterior motive kitty. Ice spear and that low co-efficiant.
  
  And before anyone says anything about ice spear charging fast, 8 seconds is still relativly slow in the metagame. Faster the better.

  
  Let's try to understand the speed benefits associated. First off let's start what we currently have:
  
  -Highest of Vivace/Wand Speed Upgrades/Speed Casting Reforge
  -Intelligence Modifier
  
  Currently the intelligence modifier stacks properly but the speed casting reforge, vivace, and wand upgrades will only return the highest number. So with a hermit staff with no speed upgrades (which I plan to use after the update), 1000 intelligence, and 15% vivace you will do 1.15 * 1.2 or 1.38x speed with Ice Spear. Now lets look at the future:
  
  -Vivace
  -Speed Casting Reforge
  -Wand Upgrades
  -Magic Weapon Mastery
  -Intelligence Modifier
  
  With this same setup despite things now stacking properly, nothing has changed. As I start to optimize I throw 152 AP at magic weapon mastery, and get a 1.15 speed multiplier for a total 1.38 x 1.15 or 1.587x. What have I accomplished? I took 0.15 seconds off of my charging time. Wonderful, most people can't even read a short word in that amount of time. It's cheap though, so I'll take it. Next is, well nothing. I would stop there because I do not want to lose damage, so this update would effectively give me a total of 15% casting speed increase. This is my perspective.
  
  Let's say YOU do want more though. I'd like to address the overwhelming hype related to the magic casting speed reforge once more: [SPOILER="Casting Speed Reforge"]Let's just go ahead and take how long I've left off with, 1 second charges of Ice Spear. Then we divide cast time by the reforge (provided they don't add, which would be worse for everyone) 1 / 1.3 = 0.77 seconds. This gives us a total savings of 0.23 seconds per charge of Ice Spear, or 30% speed increase. The magic attack reforge offers +15~20% damage increase, so logically your DPS would be higher right? Well the answer is, not necessarily. Given that you're using Ice Spear and have a charge time of 3.85 seconds for 5 charges, you're going to be harshly destroyed by lag. Say you have 0.2 seconds of latency, this would be multiplied by 11 and added onto the 3.85 seconds to make it more like 6.05 seconds. Why 11 times? Well:
  
  -One time for the initiation of each spell charge, for 5 total
  -One time for the conclusion of each spell charge, for 5 total
  -Once to fire the charge
  
  So that would make it 6.05 seconds speedcasting, and 7.2 seconds without. With these exact stats/latency/setup, you the reforge would effectively give you +19% casting speed. I know people who have double that much, easily. If you'd like to test your latency with charges then I recommend poisoning yourself to 0 intelligence and a stock firewand and timing yourself. Of course no one in NA admits to having a fraction of a fraction of lag, so onto the next point.
  
  If you're getting Ice Spears off in about 4 seconds, as opposed to 5.2 seconds, it will end taking about 8 seconds after standby instead of 9.2 seconds. This ends up being a 15% increase in DPS as opposed to 30% due to standby time. It should be noted that you can still charge during standby time so it's not entirely true, although you'll generally want to kill in one hit.
  
  Finally there is skills that are not effected. At very least this is blaze and meteor strike, and likely hailstorm though I'm not certain at this point. It also effects any given spell that you snap cast. For the listed, magic damage is automatically far superior.[/SPOILER]
  
  Similarly, magic wand upgrades have the same problems. However since faced against much less desirable upgrades (loss in +1~3% magic damage), you will still likely want to opt for speed upgrades when available (none on staves or egos).
  
  tl;dr
  Speed casting isn't necessarily the be-all end-all of reforges, and magic isn't necessarily going to be sonic's choice.
• Velithen wrote on 2013-09-07 04:22
  sorry i couldnt find the info, WindGuard is going to increase physical prot and defence only or it will increase magic prot/def too?
• Silverkun wrote on 2013-09-07 04:42
  I was fairly sure that the formulas for magic that we have here basically don't account for the numbers you'll be getting anyway, and therefore you can't use them to try and compare pre-Druid and post-Druid damage. In addition, someone with a Merlin avatar claimed in a topic here somewhere that basically, all magic will be doing like 2x-ish damage in the future, and nobody disagreed with them, and there were even people putting up Hail Storm numbers that helped support this. Unless if I'm remembering wrong. Combining that with the new skills and the cast speed fix... It would be laughable to call this a nerf, but if all you see is those formulas you couldn't really be so sure.
• wallrocha wrote on 2013-09-07 05:02
  Don't underestimate magic attack enchants.
  There is no +INT enchant that replaces them aside from Use (Staff enchant).
  
  Magic reforges weren't nerfed, they are all the same but Magic Attack (which is top tier now, +4 magic attack per level / max Lv20 = 80 Magic Attack = 400 int in a single reforge) followed by Casting Speed.
  Magic reforges that add +% damage are going to be really good if you have high M-Atk.
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Gensokyou;1145188:

  I'd like to see a source for this because I was led to believe that matk is +4 per level.

  
  
  You are right, I just got out of my mind for a second here. (Misunderstood with Hailstorm reforge)
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-07 05:10

  Quote from Zekkii;1145177:

  stuff

  
  
  Cat, you're preaching to the choir. I agree with you on most points - the speed fix is going to see the biggest difference on reforges and wands. The only issue I had was that you were trying to portray it as a nerf. When it's going to be a lot better.
  
  Does that mean that Magic is gotta go fast or even endgame? Only time will tell. The only thing that i'm trying to argue is that magic is a lot better, and that's something that you simply can't argue with.
  
  Unless you're talking about ice spear with like 200 int. In which case, get out. Get some more stats.
  
  

  Quote from wallrocha;1145187:

  Don't underestimate magic attack enchants.
  There is no +INT enchant that replaces them aside from Use (Staff enchant).
  
  Magic reforges weren't nerfed, they are all the same but Magic Attack (which is top tier now, +10 magic attack per level / max Lv20 = 200 Magic Attack = 1k int in a single reforge) followed by Casting Speed.
  Magic reforges that add +% damage are going to be really good if you have high M-Atk.

  
  
  I'd like to see a source for this because I was led to believe that matk is +4 per level.