[Mabinogi] Zero Merlin Update (Information Consolidated and Organized)

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Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-09 03:24

Quote from Kaeporo;1145751:
Support Shot to Bowmill can hit upwards of 15k.

That's probably the worst use of it though, you could have just magged again for even more damage.

Support shot is great for epeening or if you're a low level character and can't pump out the damage and you're partying with a giant lancer with triple elemental bonebreaker lance.

Obviously that's exaggerating it a bit, but you see the point. It's just more useful to pump out your own higher numbers.
Kaeporo wrote on 2013-09-09 03:31

Quote from Gensokyou;1145864:
That's probably the worst use of it though, you could have just magged again for even more damage.

Support shot is great for epeening or if you're a low level character and can't pump out the damage and you're partying with a giant lancer with triple elemental bonebreaker lance.

Obviously that's exaggerating it a bit, but you see the point. It's just more useful to pump out your own higher numbers.

I have extensive experience with the skill. It's more useful and versatile than you think. Period dot
Mckinzie wrote on 2013-09-09 03:32

Quote from Kenero;1145859:
While barehand damage is calculated into bowmill's damage.

The weapon's elemental level, piercing (if applicable such as the Bhafel Hunter) and Red upgrades all applies to bowmil. Special arrow damage, such as the special +15% damage from Bhafel Huntress also applies to bowmil damage.

Sounds like a big ol' glitch or oversight then. Maybe this should be reported to Nexon.
Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-09 03:33

Quote from Kaeporo;1145865:
I have extensive experience with the skill. It's more useful and versatile than you think. Period dot

Then i'm going to agree to disagree.

I checked the OP and wiki, but didn't find this - Do we have any information on how much Talent exp the new skills give, if any?
Kenero wrote on 2013-09-09 03:43

Quote from Mckinzie;1145867:
Sounds like a big ol' glitch or oversight then. Maybe this should be reported to Nexon.

This has existed ever since the introduction of special upgrades.

This exists in all servers, even in KR. If it was to be reported, it would have been fixed 4-5 years ago in KR.

However, whether it is a bug or not is probably now an intended game feature. I do not see them changing it anytime soon.
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 04:01

[spoiler=Return for Base Max (spell) formulas]Return for Base Max (Pre)
(1 + Special Upgrades) * (1 + Magic Damage) * (1 + Mastery Modifiers + MATK) * 1.1

Return for Base Max (Post)
(1 + Mastery Modifiers) * [[(MATK * Co-efficient) + Base Damage] / Base Damage][/spoiler]

Let's substitute 29% magic damage, +8 matk prefix title, 10 magic attack from enchants, s5, r1 all masteries/spells, no reforges, and the respective elemental mastery title.
[spoiler=Return for Spell Max calculation]
Pre (Any Spell) [Red Line]
y = (1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + x/2000 ) * 1.1

Post (Ice Spear) [Blue Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 1.4 + 240)/ 240)

[Image: http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6309/edjj.png]

Breakeven: 176 Intelligence

Post (Hailstorm) [Green Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 3.2 + 300)/ 300)

[Image: http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7282/ro1g.png]

Breakeven: Below 0 Intelligence

Post (Fireball) [Blue Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 12 + 2400)/ 2400)

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/3IUdQJM.png]

Breakeven: 608 Intelligence

Post (Thunder) [Orange Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 2.1 + 400)/ 400)

[Image: http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8233/hl2g.png]

Breakeven: 439 Intelligence[/spoiler]

As you can probably see, pretty much everyone will be better off with magic provided they do not use reforges. So let's throw reforges into the mix: IS max 20 for Ice Spear Pre, Hailstorm max 20 for Hailstorm pre, and Magic Attack 20 for absolutely everything else.
[spoiler=Reforged Return for Spell Max calculation]
Pre (Ice Spear) [Red Line] Note: Used Last modifier to correct for reforge
y = (1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + x/2000 ) * 1.1 * 340/240

Pre (Hailstorm) [Red Line] Note: Used Last modifier to correct for reforge
y = (1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + x/2000 ) * 1.1 * 500/300

Pre (Fireball, Thunder) [Red Line]
y = (1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + 0.2 + x/2000 ) * 1.1

Post (Ice Spear) [Blue Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 80+ 68 + 10 + x/5) * 1.4 + 240)/ 240)

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/UuTSMos.png]

Breakeven: 1829 Intelligence

Post (Hailstorm) [Green Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 80 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 3.2 + 300)/ 300)

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/FydipRi.png]

Breakeven: Below 0 Intelligence

Post (Fireball) [Purple Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 12 + 2400)/ 2400)

[Image: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1483/6xfs.png]

Breakeven: 208 Intelligence

Post (Thunder) [Orange Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 80 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 2.1 + 400)/ 400)

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/XTb3ys3.png]

Breakeven: 39 Intelligence
[/spoiler]
So what can we take from this? Almost everything will be weaker with low intelligence, but it's rather easy to breakeven and you will slowly start to do more and more damage as you gain intelligence. At cap, this generally involves about a 15~20% damage increase for Thunder, a 12~15% damage increase for fireball, a whopping 35%+ damage increase for hailstorm, and a slight damage nerf for Ice Spear due to the reforge being gimped. You should be able to push the damage even further than you would now with elemental mastery reforges as well as rosemary gloves since they no longer compound singularly with magic attack.
Mckinzie wrote on 2013-09-09 04:04

Quote from Kenero;1145870:
This has existed ever since the introduction of special upgrades.

This exists in all servers, even in KR. If it was to be reported, it would have been fixed 4-5 years ago in KR.

However, whether it is a bug or not is probably now an intended game feature. I do not see them changing it anytime soon.
There have been plenty of bugs, glitches.and consequences of faulty programming that have taken years to fix but eventually got fixed. Not just Mabinogi, but Team Fortress 2, Minecraft and plenty of other games that receive constant updates.

Some players like to think of all useful glitches that don't get fixed right away as an ascended one, but I really have to doubt that that is the case when bowmill got nerfed to ignore the bows damage and any enchants or upgrades it received in the first place.

I think of it the exact same way I think of being able to walk through the back wall in Fiodh and Coill lobbies: glitch overlooked by the developer.
Kenero wrote on 2013-09-09 04:11

Quote from Mckinzie;1145875:
There have been plenty of bugs, glitches.and consequences of faulty programming that have taken years to fix but eventually got fixed. Not just Mabinogi, but Team Fortress 2, Minecraft and plenty of other games that receive constant updates.

Some players like to think of all useful glitches that don't get fixed right away as an ascended one, but I really have to doubt that that is the case when bowmill got nerfed to ignore the bows damage and any enchants or upgrades it received in the first place.

I think of it the exact same way I think of being able to walk through the back wall in Fiodh and Coill lobbies: glitch overlooked by the developer.

Actually damage enchants on bows also apply to bowmill damage.
Kaeporo wrote on 2013-09-09 04:19

Quote from Zekkii;1145873:
[spoiler=Return for Base Max (spell) formulas]Return for Base Max (Pre)
(1 + Special Upgrades) * (1 + Magic Damage) * (1 + Mastery Modifiers + MATK) * 1.1

Return for Base Max (Post)
(1 + Mastery Modifiers) * [[(MATK * Co-efficient) + Base Damage] / Base Damage][/spoiler]

Let's substitute 29% magic damage, +8 matk prefix title, 10 magic attack from enchants, s5, r1 all masteries/spells, no reforges, and the respective elemental mastery title.
[spoiler=Return for Spell Max calculation]
Pre (Any Spell) [Red Line]
y = (1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + x/2000 ) * 1.1

Post (Ice Spear) [Blue Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 1.4 + 240)/ 240)

[Image: http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6309/edjj.png]

Breakeven: 176 Intelligence

Post (Hailstorm) [Green Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 3.2 + 300)/ 300)

[Image: http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7282/ro1g.png]

Breakeven: Below 0 Intelligence

Post (Fireball) [Blue Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 12 + 2400)/ 2400)

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/3IUdQJM.png]

Breakeven: 608 Intelligence

Post (Thunder) [Orange Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 2.1 + 400)/ 400)

[Image: http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8233/hl2g.png]

Breakeven: 439 Intelligence[/spoiler]

As you can probably see, pretty much everyone will be better off with magic provided they do not use reforges. So let's throw reforges into the mix: IS max 20 for Ice Spear Pre, Hailstorm max 20 for Hailstorm pre, and Magic Attack 20 for absolutely everything else.
[spoiler=Reforged Return for Spell Max calculation]
Pre (Ice Spear) [Red Line] Note: Used Last modifier to correct for reforge
y = (1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + x/2000 ) * 1.1 * 340/240

Pre (Hailstorm) [Red Line] Note: Used Last modifier to correct for reforge
y = (1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + x/2000 ) * 1.1 * 500/300

Pre (Fireball, Thunder) [Red Line]
y = (1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + 0.2 + x/2000 ) * 1.1

Post (Ice Spear) [Blue Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 80+ 68 + 10 + x/5) * 1.4 + 240)/ 240)

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/UuTSMos.png]

Breakeven: 1829 Intelligence

Post (Hailstorm) [Green Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 80 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 3.2 + 300)/ 300)

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/FydipRi.png]

Breakeven: Below 0 Intelligence

Post (Fireball) [Purple Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 12 + 2400)/ 2400)

[Image: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1483/6xfs.png]

Breakeven: 208 Intelligence

Post (Thunder) [Orange Line]
y = (1 + 0.15 + 0.1) * (((29 + 32 + 80 + 68 + 10 + x/5) * 2.1 + 400)/ 400)

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/XTb3ys3.png]

Breakeven: 39 Intelligence
[/spoiler]
So what can we take from this? Almost everything will be weaker with low intelligence, but it's rather easy to breakeven and you will slowly start to do more and more damage as you gain intelligence. At cap, this generally involves about a 15~20% damage increase for Thunder, a 12~15% damage increase for fireball, a whopping 35%+ damage increase for hailstorm, and a slight damage nerf for Ice Spear due to the reforge being gimped. You should be able to push the damage even further than you would now with elemental mastery reforges as well as rosemary gloves since they no longer compound singularly with magic attack.

Perhaps i'm mistaken but you didn't add the maximum damage reforges to Ice Spear and Hail Storm post Zero.

Quote from Mckinzie;1145875:
[SPOILER="Write to your congressman"]There have been plenty of bugs, glitches.and consequences of faulty programming that have taken years to fix but eventually got fixed. Not just Mabinogi, but Team Fortress 2, Minecraft and plenty of other games that receive constant updates.

Some players like to think of all useful glitches that don't get fixed right away as an ascended one, but I really have to doubt that that is the case when bowmill got nerfed to ignore the bows damage and any enchants or upgrades it received in the first place.

I think of it the exact same way I think of being able to walk through the back wall in Fiodh and Coill lobbies: glitch overlooked by the developer.[/SPOILER]
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 04:22

Quote from Kaeporo;1145879:
Perhaps i'm mistaken but you didn't add the maximum damage reforges to Ice Spear and Hail Storm post Zero.

I used 20 magic attack reforge in the place of IS and hailstorm max.
Kaeporo wrote on 2013-09-09 04:39

Quote from Zekkii;1145880:
I used 20 magic attack reforge in the place of IS and hailstorm max.

I don't understand the formula which you're using.

Ice Spear should deal greater damage post Zero with around 400 magic attack with those reforges.
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 04:58

Quote from Kaeporo;1145884:
I don't understand the formula which you're using.

Ice Spear should deal greater damage post Zero with around 400 magic attack with those reforges.

Welp, let me do it out on with the formula.

PRE
Special Upgrades * Magic Damage * (Elemental Mastery + Elemental Mastery Title + Prefix Title + Magic Attack Enchants + Intelligence Related MATK) * Magic Mastery Modifier * (Base Damage + Reforge)
(1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + 1500/2000 ) * 1.1 * 340 = 1287 (one charge)

POST
(Base Damage + (MATK from special upgrades, titles, staff upgrades, MATK reforge, and MATK enchants, intelligence) * Ice Spear Modofier) * Ice Mastery + Ice Mastery title
(240 + ((68 + 32 + 29 + 80 + 10 + 300) * 1.4)) * 1.25
= (240 + (519 * 1.4)) * 1.25
= 1208

Keep in mind this is not total endgame, there is no rosemary gloves nor ice mastery reforge which would side it more towards post.
MIKEHUNT wrote on 2013-09-09 05:00

Quote from Kaeporo;1145884:
I don't understand the formula which you're using.

Ice Spear should deal greater damage post Zero with around 400 magic attack with those reforges.

I'm a bit confused as well. Where did you get these formulas?

Also I'm fairly certain that the mastery reforge is multiplicative like the mastery titles, not additive, so I don't understand how the mastery reforges would makemuch of a difference.
Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-09 05:02

Quote from MIKEHUNT;1145892:
I'm a bit confused as well. Where did you get these formulas?

Front page has the formulas that the cat would be using.
MIKEHUNT wrote on 2013-09-09 05:05

Quote from Gensokyou;1145894:
Front page has the formulas that the cat would be using.

Ah I see I've been falling a bit behind. I thought it was decided that te formula would e to complicated to figure out and that we'd have to rely on foreign servers to do it for us?

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