[Mabinogi] Zero Merlin Update (Information Consolidated and Organized)

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Kaeporo wrote on 2013-09-09 05:14

Quote from Zekkii;1145891:
[SPOILER=" "]Welp, let me do it out on with the formula.

PRE
Special Upgrades * Magic Damage * (Elemental Mastery + Elemental Mastery Title + Prefix Title + Magic Attack Enchants + Intelligence Related MATK) * Magic Mastery Modifier * (Base Damage + Reforge)
(1 + 0.17) * (1 + 0.29) * (1 + 0.15 + 0.1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + 1500/2000 ) * 1.1 * 340 = 1287 (one charge)

POST
(Base Damage + (MATK from special upgrades, titles, staff upgrades, MATK reforge, and MATK enchants, intelligence) * Ice Spear Modofier) * Ice Mastery + Ice Mastery title
(240 + ((68 + 32 + 29 + 80 + 10 + 300) * 1.4)) * 1.25
= (240 + (519 * 1.4)) * 1.25
= 1208

Keep in mind this is not total endgame, there is no rosemary gloves nor ice mastery reforge which would side it more towards post.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER="Pre-Zero"]Constants: (Total ~340)
240 (r1 Ice Spear)
100 (Ice Spear Max Damage 20 level

Multipliers:
1.5 (Magic Attack via 1k Int)
1.28 (Crown Ice Wand)
1.17 (S5)
1.15 (r1 Ice Mastery)
1.15 (Rosemary Gloves)
6.5 (Charge Multiplier)
2.5 (Critical Hit)

Constants * Multipliers = 16.4k[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER="Post-Zero"]Constants:
240 (r1 Ice Spear)
575 (Magic Attack * Coefficient)

Magic Attack: (Total ~411)
240 (Magic Attack via 1.2k Int)
23 (Hermit Staff)
68 (S5)
80 (Magic Attack 20 level)

Coefficient:
1.4 (Ice Spear)

Multipliers:
1.15 (r1 Ice Mastery)
1.15 (Rosemary Gloves)
6.5 (Charge Multiplier)
2.5 (Critical Hit)

Constants * Multipliers = 17.5k[/SPOILER]

This is how it should work.
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 06:52

Quote from Kaeporo;1145899:
[SPOILER="Pre-Zero"]Constants: (Total ~340)
240 (r1 Ice Spear)
100 (Ice Spear Max Damage 20 level

Multipliers:
1.5 (Magic Attack via 1k Int)
1.28 (Crown Ice Wand)
1.17 (S5)
1.15 (r1 Ice Mastery)
1.15 (Rosemary Gloves)
6.5 (Charge Multiplier)
2.5 (Critical Hit)

Constants * Multipliers = 16.4k[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER="Post-Zero"]Constants:
240 (r1 Ice Spear)
575 (Magic Attack * Coefficient)

Magic Attack: (Total ~411)
240 (Magic Attack via 1.2k Int)
23 (Hermit Staff)
68 (S5)
80 (Magic Attack 20 level)

Coefficient:
1.4 (Ice Spear)

Multipliers:
1.15 (r1 Ice Mastery)
1.15 (Rosemary Gloves)
6.5 (Charge Multiplier)
2.5 (Critical Hit)

Constants * Multipliers = 17.5k[/SPOILER]

This is how it should work.

I do not know what to say, that just is not how the formula works. Just try it, your numbers will contradict damage in game.
wallrocha wrote on 2013-09-09 06:54

A Fireball max dmg Lv19 + Magic Attack Lv12 compared to a Fireball max dmg Lv12 + Magic Attack Lv18, who would win in the end? I'm a bit confused about how max dmg reforges are going to work and why/how they are nerfed.
And how will the -magic damage from upgrades count toward the damage?
Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-09 07:05

Quote from wallrocha;1145937:
A Fireball max dmg Lv19 + Magic Attack Lv12 compared to a Fireball max dmg Lv12 + Magic Attack Lv18, who would win in the end? I'm a bit confused about how max dmg reforges are going to work and why/how they are nerfed.
And how will the -magic damage from upgrades count toward the damage?

It'l just reduce magic attack.
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 08:12

Quote from wallrocha;1145937:
A Fireball max dmg Lv19 + Magic Attack Lv12 compared to a Fireball max dmg Lv12 + Magic Attack Lv18, who would win in the end? I'm a bit confused about how max dmg reforges are going to work and why/how they are nerfed.
And how will the -magic damage from upgrades count toward the damage?

The magic attack should definitely be better post-revamp. Fireball max 20 is 300 max on fireball, and magic attack 20 is 960 max. As for why spell max damage reforges are effectually nerfed, it is because the compound singularly with magic attack. Its pretty much just like (1.01 * 1.01) * 1.01 > 1.02 * 1.01. If that helps.
Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-09 08:25

Quote from Zekkii;1145950:
The magic attack should definitely be better post-revamp. Fireball max 20 is 300 max on fireball, and magic attack 20 is 960 max. As for why spell max damage reforges are effectually nerfed, it is because the compound singularly with magic attack. Its pretty much just like (1.01 * 1.01) * 1.01 > 1.02 * 1.01. If that helps.

It's not that they're nerfed, because they add the same amount to the spell co-efficiant. It's just that MAtk is much better.
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 08:45

Quote from Gensokyou;1145954:
It's not that they're nerfed, because they add the same amount to the spell co-efficiant. It's just that MAtk is much better.

It adds less damage. In the current formula you would multiply the reforge by special upgrades, magic attack, elemental masteries, and other modifiers. In the future the reforge will only be multiplied by elemental masteries. Perhaps that is a more clear explanation.
Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-09 08:53

Quote from Zekkii;1145957:
It adds less damage. In the current formula you would multiply the reforge by special upgrades, magic attack, elemental masteries, and other modifiers. In the future the reforge will only be multiplied by elemental masteries. Perhaps that is a more clear explanation.

It's a clearer expression, but the actual numbers of the reforge wern't changed. You know this. ;)
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 08:57

Quote from Gensokyou;1145963:
It's a clearer expression, but the actual numbers of the reforge wern't changed. You know this. ;)

Well in any case, it is better to have magic attack reforges being more effective because they are far more versatile. You only have to worry about magic attack on a hermit staff for Thunder/Ice Spear/Hailstorm/Fireball/Fusion/Blaze/Etc Max.
Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-09 09:02

Quote from Zekkii;1145965:
Well in any case, it is better to have magic attack reforges being more effective because they are far more versatile. You only have to worry about magic attack on a hermit staff for Thunder/Ice Spear/Hailstorm/Fireball/Fusion/Blaze/Etc Max.

Yeah, it's great to see an all round reforge. Too bad that it's still not that great though...
Kaeporo wrote on 2013-09-09 15:31

Quote from Zekkii;1145936:
I do not know what to say, that just is not how the formula works. Just try it, your numbers will contradict damage in game.

That's about how much damage I deal with Ice Spear right now.

I've never seen any variant of the magic damage formula where you divided by the spell's max damage.

(240 + (1.4 * 411)) * (1.15) * 6.5

That's pulled straight from the first page. Add in critical hits and rosemary gloves and you'll find yourself dealing the damage which I stated.
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 18:44

Quote from Kaeporo;1146045:
That's about how much damage I deal with Ice Spear right now.

I've never seen any variant of the magic damage formula where you divided by the spell's max damage.

Well that was my fault, I just made the return for spell max damage formula for easier graphing and personal purposes a while ago. It is the damage formula if you just multiply by base damage.

That's pulled straight from the first page. Add in critical hits and rosemary gloves and you'll find yourself dealing the damage which I stated.

I meant to say your formula for current magic damage is off.
wallrocha wrote on 2013-09-09 19:32

Quote from Gensokyou;1145938:
It'l just reduce magic attack.

Quote from Zekkii;1145957:
stuff.

Thanks to clarify my questions!

Now.... if we only could find out about that headgear Elemental Mastery reforge (if they are multiplicative or additive) so I could stop/start hunting for one.
Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-09 20:52

Quote from wallrocha;1146099:
Thanks to clarify my questions!

Now.... if we only could find out about that headgear Elemental Mastery reforge (if they are multiplicative or additive) so I could stop/start hunting for one.

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/L39Zyvn.png]

Note the intelligence does not give me an additional magic attack:

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/HhCcTw2.png]

Without headgear (1 charge firebolt):

[Image: http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6013/uq9e.png]

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/hAvFDYM.png]

[Image: http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/825/nhfd.png]

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/GsWSFME.png]

Estimated damage: 385.6

With headgear:

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/p3drMXj.png]

[Image: http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6650/w04a.png]

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/RdwyCN0.png]

Estimated damage: 387.6

387.6 / 385.6 = 1.00518, a 0.519% increase in damage.

Seeing as I have r1 fire mastery, and 80 magic attack this should result in (1 + 0.15 + 0.8 + 0.01) / (1 + 0.15 + 0.8) = 1.005182, or a 0.518% increase in damage provided it stacks additively. I would say that it is confirmed to add and not multiply, just as the titles, rosemary gloves, and other reforges do.
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-09-09 21:27

Glad you settled that one. I always assumed it would be additive anyways as having every little thing multiplied is silly and stupid.

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