[Mabinogi] Zero Merlin Update (Information Consolidated and Organized)

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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-22 08:11

Quote from wallrocha;1138790:
I agree. Thats why I am not going to reforge a headgear since I only care about magic. o _o

It is. Firebolt and IS with 5 charges has a x6.5

Well right now we don't know if that actually stays with the new formula Post Zero. Devcat went out of their way to change so many things about magic that this may or may not still hold true.
SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-08-22 08:13

How is the new MS formula changed ?
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-22 08:24

Quote from SUNFLARE;1138951:
How is the new MS formula changed ?

Well the base formula that I pulled from Soluna is on the front page. Last couple pages I've been theorycrafting what the other part of the formula is. The spell co-efficients are also modified as well. If they were modified, the spell modifiers might have been changed as well.

Also take a look at these screenshots I took on KR test. (Testing Modifier for firebolt atm)

[Image: http://puu.sh/47WQi.png]
[Image: http://puu.sh/47WSm.png]

Not sure if these mean anything but I'll take this into consideration.

Looks like the 6.5 Modifier still holds. Based on my Raw Calculations

[spoiler="Raw Firebolt Data"]
Magic Notes
Rank C Magic Mastery
Rank D Firebolt
Rank B Fire Mastery
Rank B Magic Weapon Mastery
Normal Ice Wand
17 Magic Attack
22-33 Damage

1 Charge Firebolts on Young Raccoons (0Def/0Prot)
40
40
41
31
38
63 crit
32
49
38
41
38
46

5 Charge Firebolts on Young Raccoons (0Def/0Prot)
292
217
292
227
589 crit
201
234
316
452 crit
210
412
325
296
[/spoiler]

I took the lowest number in the charge set and multiplied by 5 and then did that same lowest number and did 6.5

The 6.5 matched closer

As a bonus, here's the raw data for icebolt

[spoiler="Raw Icebolt Test Data"]
Magic Notes
Rank C Magic Mastery
Rank 9 Ice Mastery
Rank B Magic Weapon Mastery
Rank 8 Icebolt
Normal Ice Wand
14 Magic Attack
22-33 Damage

1 Charge Icebolts on Young Raccoons (Def 0, Prot 0)
73
113 crit
83
80
76
83
81
65
69
78
105 crit
61
119 crit
72
62
69
58
76
62
64
67
119 crit
67

5 Charge Icebolts on Young Raccoons (Def 0, Prot 0)
65
58
70
64
85
58
69
78
[/spoiler]

I don't have any of the adv magics thanks to the test reset from a month ago so this is the best I can give you guys to work off of for now.

Formula Test:

Rank 8 Icebolt 28 - 40
(Base Skill Dmg + Magic Atk x Skill Bonus) * (1+[% Modifiers added together])
28 + 14 * .4
28 + 5.6 = 33.6
33.6 * (1+.08+.5)
33.6 * 1.58 = 53.08
Ice Wand? Add +5 to Icebolt Base?
38.6 * 1.58 = 60.99. Min in data was 61. Formula seems to hold there

Rank D Firebolt 9 - 28
Base Skill Dmg + Magic Atk x Skill Bonus
9 + 17 * .5
9 + 8.5 = 17.5
17.5 * (1 + .05 + .5)
17.5 * 1.55 = 27.13 * 6.5 = 176.31

Hmmm what is it firebolt. Back to Testing.

Wand Test Results

[spoiler="Raw Wand Test Data"]
Magic Notes
Rank C Magic Mastery
Rank D Firebolt
Rank B Fire Mastery
Rank B Magic Weapon Mastery
Rak 8 Icebolt
Rank 8 Ice Mastery
17 Magic Attack
22-33 Damage

1 Charge Firebolts on Young Raccoons without ice wand
32
28
36
48 crit
35
26
40
25
22
32
33

1 Charge Firebolts on Young Raccoons with Ice wand
46
31
32
49
77 crit
43
54
31
48
43
48
72 crit

1 Charge Icebolt on Young Raccon without ice wand
50
43
56
46
49
47
78 crit
49
46
47
42
48

1 Charge Icebolt on Young Raccon with ice wand
131 crit
74
127 crit
80
79
80
69
85
66
137 crit
90
67
88
67
[/spoiler]

Conclusion: Ice Wand also boosts Firebolt Damage. Don't have money to test with Fire wand currently.

Ice wand was clean btw. No ugprades, no reforges, no enchants. Beginner Ice Wand

As for firebolt. Either the coefficient for firebolt is wrong or there's something else to my formula that I'm not quite getting.

Damage in the character screen may have a factor in the formula. Damage without ice wand 18~31. Damage with Ice wand 22~33
wallrocha wrote on 2013-08-22 17:35

King, those Spell Co-efficients that you changed now are the first ones that they had on KR Test (Wed Mar 20, 2013).
The ones you had were the right ones (Soluna posted the new ones here http://mabidata.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1648&start=90#p15687 (Thu Apr 25, 2013)
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-22 19:29

Quote from wallrocha;1139059:
King, those Spell Co-efficients that you changed now are the first ones that they had on KR Test (Wed Mar 20, 2013).
The ones you had were the right ones (Soluna posted the new ones here http://mabidata.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1648&start=90#p15687 (Thu Apr 25, 2013)

Oh I see thanks. What about fire bolt?
Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-22 19:50

Quote from Kingofrunes;1139084:
Oh I see thanks. What about fire bolt?

0.03, Blaze

0.4, Icebolt
0.5, Firebolt
0.6, Lightning Bolt

1.4, Ice Spear
2.1, Thunder
3.2, Hail Storm

5, Shockwave
12, Fireball
30, Meteor Strike
Gensokyou wrote on 2013-08-22 20:08

Question: are meteor strike and fireball affected by a charge modifier?

I imagine hailstorm is.
Iyasenu wrote on 2013-08-22 20:16

Quote from Gensokyou;1139102:
Question: are meteor strike and fireball affected by a charge modifier?

I imagine hailstorm is.

I don't get understand exactly what you mean.

Fireball can only be cast with 5 charges so wouldn't it not matter if it did or didn't have a charge modifier since there's only one way you can cast it?

And Meteor doesn't have charges at all, it's just one big attack.
Kaeporo wrote on 2013-08-22 20:19

Reference: A note on magic coefficients

Example (left, present):
Spell Max * Magic Attack * Charge Multiplier

Example (right, future):
Spell Max * Charge Multiplier + Magic Attack * Coefficient

Icebolt
80*1.5 = 120 â†’ 80 + 200*0.4 = 160

Lightning Bolt
150*1.5 = 225 â†’ 150 + 200*0.6 = 270

Firebolt
(x1) 120*1.5 = 180 â†’ 120 + 200*0.5 = 220
(x5) 120*1.5*6.5 = 1170 â†’ 120*6.5+200*0.5 = 880

Ice Spear
(x1) 240*1.5 = 360 â†’ 240+200*1.4 = 520
(x5) 240*1.5*6.5 = 2340 â†’ 240*6.5+200*1.4 = 1840

Thunder
400*1.5 = 600 â†’ 400 + 200*2.1 = 820

Fireball
2400*1.5 = 3600 â†’ 2400 + 200*12 = 4800

Hail Storm
(x1) 300*1.5 = 450 â†’ 300 + 200*3.2 = 940
(x5) 300*1.5*6.25 = 2812 â†’ 300*6.25 + 200*3.2 = 2515

Shockwave
400*1.5 = 600 â†’ 400+200*5.0 = 1400

Meteor Strike
16,200 + 200*30 = 22,200

---

Spell damage reforges essentially increase the skill value damage. The same applies to alchemy skills (ie: Water Cannon max damage 20 level gives +60 water alchemic damage which receives a 6.5x multiplier at five charges versus the 5x multiplier typically afforded to standard water alchemic damage).

This means that spell damage reforges suffer reduced effectiveness. The +2156 damage awarded by Hail Storm max damage 20 level will be reduced to 1437 damage (assuming you had 50 magic attack prior to Zero and r1 Ice Mastery in both situations but no rosemary gloves.

Now, obviously the magic formula is much more complex than this but the majority of that formula adds paltry damage. You should also consider that bolt magic deals 2.5x greater damage with magic weapon mastery at r1.
Gensokyou wrote on 2013-08-22 20:26

Quote from Iyasenu;1139105:
I don't get understand exactly what you mean.

Fireball can only be cast with 5 charges so wouldn't it not matter if it did or didn't have a charge modifier since there's only one way you can cast it?

And Meteor doesn't have charges at all, it's just one big attack.

It would matter because if it had a charge multiplier then you could potentially be missing out on thousands of damage while doing calculations.
wallrocha wrote on 2013-08-22 20:40

Quote from Gensokyou;1139112:
It would matter because if it had a charge multiplier then you could potentially be missing out on thousands of damage while doing calculations.

Fireball does not have a multiplier. Thats why it has a bigger spell coefficient.

Quote from Gensokyou;1139112:
It would matter because if it had a charge multiplier then you could potentially be missing out on thousands of damage while doing calculations.

Fireball does not have a multiplier. Thats why it has a bigger spell coefficient.
wallrocha wrote on 2013-08-22 20:56

Quote from Kingofrunes;1139084:
Oh I see thanks. What about fire bolt?

I didnt get to test firebolt but I did try IS after they fixed the glitch (M-Atk only counting on the first charge) and I am pretty sure it was x6.5 with 5 charges.

Quote from Gensokyou;1139112:
It would matter because if it had a charge multiplier then you could potentially be missing out on thousands of damage while doing calculations.

Fireball does not have a multiplier. Thats why it has a bigger spell coefficient.

Does anyone know anything about Magic Balance? did they change it? is the wiki wrong (im pretty sure it is) about it being 100% balance with 230 INT (Rank 1 Magic Mastery)?

Also, any information on Mirage Missile coefficient/damage? I was really curious to see how it will be after the update.
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-22 21:18

Quote from Kaeporo;1139094:
0.03, Blaze

0.4, Icebolt
0.5, Firebolt
0.6, Lightning Bolt

1.4, Ice Spear
2.1, Thunder
3.2, Hail Storm

5, Shockwave
12, Fireball
30, Meteor Strike

Thanks. I'll update the OP.
ewire123 wrote on 2013-08-22 21:53

Quote from Kaeporo;1139107:
Reference: A note on magic coefficients

Example (left, present):
Spell Max * Magic Attack * Charge Multiplier

Example (right, future):
Spell Max * Charge Multiplier + Magic Attack * Coefficient

Icebolt
80*1.5 = 120 â†’ 80 + 200*0.4 = 160

Lightning Bolt
150*1.5 = 225 â†’ 150 + 200*0.6 = 270

Firebolt
(x1) 120*1.5 = 180 â†’ 120 + 200*0.5 = 220
(x5) 120*1.5*6.5 = 1170 â†’ 120*6.5+200*0.5 = 880

Ice Spear
(x1) 240*1.5 = 360 â†’ 240+200*1.4 = 520
(x5) 240*1.5*6.5 = 2340 â†’ 240*6.5+200*1.4 = 1840

Thunder
400*1.5 = 600 â†’ 400 + 200*2.1 = 820

Fireball
2400*1.5 = 3600 â†’ 2400 + 200*12 = 4800

Hail Storm
(x1) 300*1.5 = 450 â†’ 300 + 200*3.2 = 940
(x5) 300*1.5*6.25 = 2812 â†’ 300*6.25 + 200*3.2 = 2515

Shockwave
400*1.5 = 600 â†’ 400+200*5.0 = 1400

Meteor Strike
16,200 + 200*30 = 22,200

---

Spell damage reforges essentially increase the skill value damage. The same applies to alchemy skills (ie: Water Cannon max damage 20 level gives +60 water alchemic damage which receives a 6.5x multiplier at five charges versus the 5x multiplier typically afforded to standard water alchemic damage).

This means that spell damage reforges suffer reduced effectiveness. The +2156 damage awarded by Hail Storm max damage 20 level will be reduced to 1437 damage (assuming you had 50 magic attack prior to Zero and r1 Ice Mastery in both situations but no rosemary gloves.

Now, obviously the magic formula is much more complex than this but the majority of that formula adds paltry damage. You should also consider that bolt magic deals 2.5x greater damage with magic weapon mastery at r1.

I thought the new magic formula when it come to KR live was never found?

Why are you copy pasting the same broken old kr test one?

And hailstorm max damage reforge is fucking awesome, having own one myself.
Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-08-22 23:08

Quote from ewire123;1139153:
I thought the new magic formula when it come to KR live was never found?

Why are you copy pasting the same broken old kr test one?

And hailstorm max damage reforge is fucking awesome, having own one myself.

That formula actually works pretty well when I did my calculations. I messed up in my last round of calculations by forgetting that the gold bonus only applies if you have a wand equipped. Thus why I was seeing higher damage for firebolt having an ice wand equipped vs having no wand equipped.

Rank D Firebolt 9 - 28
(Base Skill Dmg + Magic Atk x Skill Bonus) * (1+[% Modifiers added together])
9 + 17 * .5
9 + 8.5 = 17.5
17.5 * (1 + .05)
17.5 * 1.05 = 18
17.5 * 1.55 = 27
Unfournately it's off by 1 with this data set. For the second skill set, I'm going to assume I was being lucky not to hit the min. Only issue is that without me putting a lot of effort to get my test char with high enough stats, it's going to be very difficult to really put it to the test outside of these small paltry tests.

[spoiler="More Raw Data"]
Knuckles 24~36 Damage Firebolt Test on Young Raccoons
36
43
38
42
28
27
21
29
21
21

Bare handed 18-31 Firebolt Damage Test on Young Raccoons
27
33
21
33
27
36
17
40
32
38
43

Ice Wand 22~33 Damage Firebolt Test on Young Raccoons
58
49
58
63
37
63
62
31
52
31
57
[/spoiler]

Found this:

[Image: http://puu.sh/48sPj.png]

There's actually a minimum skill coefficent for Magic.

http://mirror.enha.kr/wiki/%EB%A7%88%EB%B9%84%EB%85%B8%EA%B8%B0/%EB%8A%A5%EB%A0%A5%EC%B9%98

Quote from Blanks:

it says
5 int = 1 magic attack
4 int = 1 magic balance
100 int = intermediate magic casting time reduced 2%
5 int = dual gun max attack 1

9 + 17 * .35
9 + 5.95 = 14.95
14.95 * (1 + .05)
14.95 * 1.05 = 15.6975 (16?)

Every where I go for Korean sources I keep seeing the same formula everywhere so at this point I'm going to assume it as fact especially as my calculations work out for the most part on the little bit of testing I did on the test server.

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