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Slayerj wrote on 2014-04-21 22:28
The true overall issue is, we're too strong/the content a majority of us are playing on is too weak.
Put a dragon to sleep. Can you completely wreck it while it's asleep? No. Why? Too much HP, def, mdef, mprot and prot. (Idk their magic defense stats lol.)
What do you get? 300+ extra dmg once and maybe stopping it from doing a single skill.
Does a raid boss = regular mission combat? No. Is this a good example though? Yes. Why?
If a regular monster had 15k hp (we're not taking def and stuff into account here.) and you could only set up a combo while it was a sleep for 9k total dmg, then you just delt 9.4k total dmg give or take. The mob isn't dead yet. None of the mobs you hit in that time with the same thing are dead yet. BUT because of the skills at your disposal when you're near 'end game' (In this case most skills rank 5-1), you have a LOT of different options to hold them off. A quick instant IS into blaze, a crisis or other puppet skill, a hydra to chip things down while you try and survive or AoE pets to keep everything stun-locked, a high powered lance WM, Crash shot, or a strong shooting rush/bullet storm. Anything else to deal out massive AoE dmg to the group (or single mob) that's left and finish it off.
Problem is, this isn't the case anyway.A few people higher than this to just kill the group/nearly kill it in one go, or hit just enough to do this. Combine this with party play and a large number of skills to use and yeah...Nothing much stands a chance. The content doesn't match up to YOUR power OR your GROUPS power. There's no nerfing you and others just to make things seem harder.
"But I'm not end game and the content I'm playing with is just the same." So? Just means you need to step up what you're doing. If the next thing up is stomping you...well...there's not enough options for difficulty. Back in the day I remember that Adv to HM jump...Man was that a jump or what? lol
The issue here is there's nothing higher to do...and it just turns into a 'beef up the stats' game when ever they do new content... That and nulling ele reforges.
I don't one shot much in hard mode on any of my characters and I'm far from 'end game.' Even if I were to put something to sleep with my elf, I can't dish out enough dmg to one shot a large group unless I get really lucky with a crit with my puppet. So I just take them on one at a time with act 1 and 2 and regular attacks. Do I always kill all the mobs before they wake up? Nope. Do I still find a lot of the content in this game to be easy? Yes.
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Johny wrote on 2014-04-21 23:18
Quote from Slayerj;1216509:
The true overall issue is, we're too strong/the content a majority of us are playing on is too weak.
Put a dragon to sleep. Can you completely wreck it while it's asleep? No. Why? Too much HP, def, mdef, mprot and prot. (Idk their magic defense stats lol.)
What do you get? 300+ extra dmg once and maybe stopping it from doing a single skill.
Does a raid boss = regular mission combat? No. Is this a good example though? Yes. Why?
If a regular monster had 15k hp (we're not taking def and stuff into account here.) and you could only set up a combo while it was a sleep for 9k total dmg, then you just delt 9.4k total dmg give or take. The mob isn't dead yet. None of the mobs you hit in that time with the same thing are dead yet. BUT because of the skills at your disposal when you're near 'end game' (In this case most skills rank 5-1), you have a LOT of different options to hold them off. A quick instant IS into blaze, a crisis or other puppet skill, a hydra to chip things down while you try and survive or AoE pets to keep everything stun-locked, a high powered lance WM, Crash shot, or a strong shooting rush/bullet storm. Anything else to deal out massive AoE dmg to the group (or single mob) that's left and finish it off.
Problem is, this isn't the case anyway. Most people hit FAR higher than this to just kill the group/nearly kill it in one go. Combine this with party play and yeah...Nothing much stands a chance. The content doesn't match up to YOUR power OR your GROUPS power. There's no nerfing you and others just to make things seem harder.
"But I'm not end game and the content I'm playing with is just the same." So? Just means you need to step up what you're doing. If the next thing up is stomping you...well...there's not enough options for difficulty. Back in the day I remember that Adv to HM jump...Man was that a jump or what? lol
The issue here is there's nothing higher to do...and it just turns into a 'beef up the stats' game when ever they do new content... That and nulling ele reforges.
I don't one shot much in hard mode on any of my characters and I'm far from 'end game.' Even if I were to put something to sleep with my elf, I can't dish out enough dmg to one shot a large group unless I get really lucky with a crit with my puppet. So I just take them on one at a time with act 1 and 2 and regular attacks. Do I always kill all the mobs before they wake up? Nope. Do I still find a lot of the content in this game to be easy? Yes.
I only have a problem with the bolded part....
I want to see the survey that says the majority of people dish out over 9k damage in mabinogi. In fact, I want to see one conducted, not in mabination, but in the mabinogi nexon forums...getting tired of people making assumptions.... -.-
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Slayerj wrote on 2014-04-21 23:23
Quote from Johny;1216523:
I only have a problem with the bolded part....
I want to see the survey that says the majority of people dish out over 9k damage in mabinogi. In fact, I want to see one conducted, not in mabination, but in the mabinogi nexon forums...getting tired of people making assumptions.... -.-
Let me change that to a few. XD; That's true, not most but a good number of people can. Sorry about that.
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Johny wrote on 2014-04-21 23:30
Quote from Slayerj;1216524:
Let me change that to a few. XD; That's true, not most but a good number of people can. Sorry about that.
No probs man. I understand its very easy to get caught up in a small world...and that its very easy to turn a blind eye to the truth. I mean I know the content in mabi seems to be getting easy...trust me i know the feeling... but one has to step back and see the world for what it is. The majority of the people in mabi are not "endgame" as most like to call it, and in fact are casual players.
I mean lol, ever since the treasure box event started, I find it hilarious that my main can literally stare down the goblins to death, while my alts have the hardest time clearing that mission...I don't know but these threads...they are irritating for me to read since 75% of the time they seem biased and absurd....But alas opinions will be opinions....
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Slayerj wrote on 2014-04-21 23:46
Quote from Johny;1216527:
No probs man. I understand its very easy to get caught up in a small world...and that its very easy to turn a blind eye to the truth. I mean I know the content in mabi seems to be getting easy...trust me i know the feeling... but one has to step back and see the world for what it is. The majority of the people in mabi are not "endgame" as most like to call it, and in fact are casual players.
I mean lol, ever since the treasure box event started, I find it hilarious that my main can literally stare down the goblins to death, while my alts have the hardest time clearing that mission...I don't know but these threads...they are irritating for me to read since 75% of the time they seem biased and absurd....But alas opinions will be opinions....
Yeah. I tired my best to remember that fact. I'm not end game but I know several end game people. I know a guy who used to clear BFT2 in under 1-2 minutes at times, and a mage who seems to have hit either a 120 or 140k+ crit blaze. I'll have to skype him about it later. I've always seen really REALLY strong players. I've also seen early on players too and I try and keep them in mind as I'm not early, nor am I an end game player. It just SEEMS that a lot of high level players are doing threads like this from time to time. So I jumped the gun by saying that.
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Johny wrote on 2014-04-21 23:50
Yea....I only know a few high level players....
But anyways, I still think ice spear is still more overpowered than blaze or lullaby.... lol. Being able to clear masses of enemies with a single skill is just too much sometimes XD
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Slayerj wrote on 2014-04-22 00:07
Quote from Johny;1216532:
Yea....I only know a few high level players....
But anyways, I still think ice spear is still more overpowered than blaze or lullaby.... lol. Being able to clear masses of enemies with a single skill is just too much sometimes XD
It all comes down to "Is it strong enough to kill one?" though. But yeah. We have so many massive damage AoE skills that just COMPLETELY outrank the single target stuff in most cases. People also like to have fun by wrecking everything while some people like to do other skills to fight/other strategies to clear stuff, to have their version of fun. So when groups like that get together, there's always going to be issues and people later complaining about things being too strong or too weak or annoying.
Small tweaks and ideas are always nice to do in theory just to make yourself feel better and find others that agree though. (I honestly forgot where I was going with this after I typed the first bit. I flipped over to skype then to youtube for a second and lost my point :p)
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Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-22 03:28
Quote from Johny;1216532:
Yea....I only know a few high level players....
But anyways, I still think ice spear is still more overpowered than blaze or lullaby.... lol. Being able to clear masses of enemies with a single skill is just too much sometimes XD
When you freeze stuff like that you are blocking potiental damage from other users in your party. It's very party play blocking. it's the reason why I only use it when I'm able to solo my own room. There is Ice spear immune mobs that makes ice spear using harder at times as well.
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Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-22 03:30
Double post sorry~
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Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-22 03:31
.....
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Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-22 03:31
Admin can you delete these I'm sorry.
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Zeo wrote on 2014-04-22 04:38
Lullaby isn't as overpowered compared to some other skills, lol. The mobs only can fall asleep to Lullaby once, and once they wake up, they can't fall asleep anymore.
To be honest, when they introduced Lullaby, it was underpowered, and doesn't even last for more than 12 seconds even with the endgame enchants and titles. They changed the buff duration from % into seconds, which affects all the Bard skills and well, to be honest, we needed it.
I got to love how there's some hypocrites in the thread, because I remember some of you guys are really excited to be able to do a Lullaby that last more than 30 seconds at merely Master Bard talent, and now you guys are complaining about how it's "overpowered" and "unbalanced". lol
Also, I am one of the GM Bards here, and I'm one of the users who still uses an instrument when running a party for a dungeon and SMs because well, I think you know why. Instruments (it includes mic too, because it can be upgraded) will always be better than without instrument.
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Slayerj wrote on 2014-04-22 05:10
Quote from Zeo;1216597:
Lullaby isn't as overpowered compared to some other skills, lol. The mobs only can fall asleep to Lullaby once, and once they wake up, they can't fall asleep anymore.
To be honest, when they introduced Lullaby, it was underpowered, and doesn't even last for more than 12 seconds even with the endgame enchants and titles. They changed the buff duration from % into seconds, which affects all the Bard skills and well, to be honest, we needed it.
I got to love how there's some hypocrites in the thread, because I remember some of you guys are really excited to be able to do a Lullaby that last more than 30 seconds at merely Master Bard talent, and now you guys are complaining about how it's "overpowered" and "unbalanced". lol
Also, I am one of the GM Bards here, and I'm one of the users who still uses an instrument when running a party for a dungeon and SMs because well, I think you know why. Instruments (it includes mic too, because it can be upgraded) will always be better than without instrument.
Lol, I only sing when I solo, and even then I have my drum~ Instruments all the way! That 800+ enduring without rank 1 sing too~ Love it!
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Jyu Viole Grace wrote on 2014-04-22 08:39
I don't understand the thought process of Nexon sometimes. I understand we, as players, should be able to do just about anything but honestly I feel like that ideology backfired because there's no way to balance this game without making major overhauls in a lot of core game aspects, and unfortunately that only leads to the player base declining. I agree Mabinogi has got to be the most unique MMO I've ever played, but it's also the most unbalanced and broken out of all of them.
Lullaby, and along with the rest of the Bard skillset needs to be nerfed, but it's not fun to nerf the skill to the ground and make it unusable or unviable. They just need to make all bard skill give stacks, and the longer you play the skill, the better stats/effects it gives up to a cap, and once the player stops playing the skill you start losing stacks unless you hit the cap. Which in my opinion keeps the core aspect of having a support/healer in dungeons or whatever but heavily nerfs the solo player.
I am open to tweaks though.
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Tropa wrote on 2014-04-22 08:47
Quote from Zeo;1216597:
Lullaby isn't as overpowered compared to some other skills, lol. The mobs only can fall asleep to Lullaby once, and once they wake up, they can't fall asleep anymore.
To be honest, when they introduced Lullaby, it was underpowered, and doesn't even last for more than 12 seconds even with the endgame enchants and titles. They changed the buff duration from % into seconds, which affects all the Bard skills and well, to be honest, we needed it.
I got to love how there's some hypocrites in the thread, because I remember some of you guys are really excited to be able to do a Lullaby that last more than 30 seconds at merely Master Bard talent, and now you guys are complaining about how it's "overpowered" and "unbalanced". lol
Also, I am one of the GM Bards here, and I'm one of the users who still uses an instrument when running a party for a dungeon and SMs because well, I think you know why. Instruments (it includes mic too, because it can be upgraded) will always be better than without instrument.
It's mainly unbalanced cause you can literally walk into a room, lullaby and kill the enemies without a care in the world.
I mostly GM'd bard myself for lullaby duration, and I wouldn't really mind if they gave it a "nerf".