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Syliara wrote on 2014-04-23 00:21
Quote from Windyxflower;1216727:
I refuse to judge a skill based on reforges. Nerfing the skill will be a grave mistake because not everyone reforges. I don't care if they are seen as character progression or not, people with reforges are clearing content 20x faster. Even if you max out a skill set. Farm as much stats as you can, someone with reforges with almost always beat you out. How is that balanced?
Whether is accessible by players, acessible by in game shop or even accessible by content drops someday, equipment shouldn't make you clear content 20x stronger then someone who doesn't. This is the true unbalance and it will remain so.
On another note how about that lullaby.
There should be a way to balance a skill and content difficulty for both reforge users and non reforge users. I never said that reforges should be the only thing taken into account, however when you rebalance you have to take into account all of the variables or at least the biggest variables to balance with. My main point is that you cant think of yourself as the majority and to suggest rebalances accordingly, you need to look at all the aspects starting from beginner to end game (including reforges), and balance all sides as well not just one side that doesnt reforge or one side that does.
In the end you need to take into account reforges and how they work into a skill's usage, potential power, and potential abusability along with how you can balance that one both sides of the spectrum without causing one side too many issues. This is the reason why its so hard to balance things in mabinogi, because the gap in power from reforges and non reforges is so big its difficult to appease both sides. However, reforges are not going anywhere so there is no "getting rid of them" and they need to be accounted for.
OT: Decrease duration, increase amount of times you can sleep while decreasing % chance per usage. I didnt really think that one through, but any thoughts on it?
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Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-23 00:31
Quote from Nui;1216730:
There should be a way to balance a skill and content difficulty for both reforge users and non reforge users. I never said that reforges should be the only thing taken into account, however when you rebalance you have to take into account all of the variables or at least the biggest variables to balance with. My main point is that you cant think of yourself as the majority and to suggest rebalances accordingly, you need to look at all the aspects starting from beginner to end game (including reforges), and balance all sides as well not just one side that doesnt reforge or one side that does.
In the end you need to take into account reforges and how they work into a skill's usage, potential power, and potential abusability along with how you can balance that one both sides of the spectrum without causing one side too many issues. This is the reason why its so hard to balance things in mabinogi, because the gap in power from reforges and non reforges is so big its difficult to appease both sides. However, reforges are not going anywhere so there is no "getting rid of them" and they need to be accounted for.
OT: Decrease duration, increase amount of times you can sleep while decreasing % chance per usage. I didnt really think that one through, but any thoughts on it?
Well then. That was a good reply. I can agree with that.
Ah how much would you decrease duration by out of curiousity? and how much times would you increase it by? Just curious.
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Syliara wrote on 2014-04-23 00:45
Quote from Windyxflower;1216732:
Well then. That was a good reply. I can agree with that.
Ah how much would you decrease duration by out of curiousity? and how much times would you increase it by? Just curious.
Decrease duration by half maybe, decrease chance to 50% on 2nd usage, 25% on third, and 10% on 4th and then 1% on all others after.
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Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-23 01:05
Quote from Nui;1216733:
Decrease duration by half maybe, decrease chance to 50% on 2nd usage, 25% on third, and 10% on 4th and then 1% on all others after.
Yea that would probably work especially if you get a chance to use it again. Not a huge chance of course but a chance. It will make up for the duration lost.
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Tropa wrote on 2014-04-23 03:03
Quote from Tyskiyomy;1216728:
You can't Ele-Wave Frozen every spawn though.
Pretty much this, I'd rather have the Sing version of lullaby nerfed in all honestly.
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Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-04-23 03:15
Quote from Nui;1216730:
OT: Decrease duration, increase amount of times you can sleep while decreasing % chance per usage. I didnt really think that one through, but any thoughts on it?
Can't really decrease base 9 duration, it'd be easier to change the formula for how music buff duration for lullaby and only lullaby.
I still think enemies should gain an immunity to anyone's lullaby for a minute or two.
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Eiryie wrote on 2014-04-23 03:26
Eiry thinks certain enemies should be more susceptible, less susceptible and maybe totally immune to lullaby.
Immunity:
Most enemies that qualify as "undead". Skeleton-based enemies, zombies and liches, etc.
Less Susceptible (Lower success rate, significantly reduced duration):
Some enemies that qualify as "undead". Ghosts, etc.
Enemies that qualify as "highly trained". Dark Commanders, Shadow Warriors, etc. (Not lancers, archers, etc)
More Susceptible (Higher success rate, significantly increased duration):
Enemies that qualify as "animals". Basilisk, Bears, etc.
Enemies that don't really care. Grumbills, Imps, Gremlins, etc.
Eiry thinks it's a neat idea.
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Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-23 04:18
Quote from Darkboy132;1216750:
Can't really decrease base 9 duration, it'd be easier to change the formula for how music buff duration for lullaby and only lullaby.
I still think enemies should gain an immunity to anyone's lullaby for a minute or two.
They changed the formula during g17. I'm quite confused why changing the formula for lullaby has come up now since its been since then. What new formula would you like for lullaby? Why only lullaby and not other bard skils. How would you go about this.
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Tropa wrote on 2014-04-23 04:32
Quote from Windyxflower;1216760:
They changed the formula during g17. I'm quite confused why changing the formula for lullaby has come up now since its been since then. What new formula would you like for lullaby? Why only lullaby and not other bard skils. How would you go about this.
Music Duration stat is a flat increase for lullaby, not percentage.
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Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-23 04:43
Quote from Tropa;1216766:
Music Duration stat is a flat increase for lullaby, not percentage.
Yes but before didn't it use to be a percentage before it was a flat increase?
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Zekkii wrote on 2014-04-23 04:58
Quote from Windyxflower;1216769:
Yes but before didn't it use to be a percentage before it was a flat increase?
Yes, hence 9 seconds * 1.5 turns into 9 seconds + 50, or 13.5 seconds to 59 seconds.
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Perfectio wrote on 2014-04-23 09:19
Personally, I'd just delete mic-less Singing. I think everyone knew that having access to Bard skills without an instrument would be a huge issue, and lo and behold, here we are.
Lullaby I'd just give a scaling success chance based on their music buff stats, with the chance of a "huge failure" that causes instant aggro on the user.
Actually I think a fail chance would be a good thing for music in general. Also longer CDs.
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Mentosftw wrote on 2014-04-23 10:20
Completely unrelated to this topic but I keep reading the "cl" from the title as a d.
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Zeo wrote on 2014-04-23 11:54
Quote from Tropa;1216748:
Pretty much this, I'd rather have the Sing version of lullaby nerfed in all honestly.
That I can agree with. I don't exactly like the idea of being able to buff yourself up with singing (without a mic) with same benefit you would get when using an un-upgraded instrument and mic.
Quote from Perfectio;1216791:
Personally, I'd just delete mic-less Singing. I think everyone knew that having access to Bard skills without an instrument would be a huge issue, and lo and behold, here we are.
Pretty much my only complaint about Diva upgrade, lol. I'm one of those conservative Mabinogi players and I still use instruments to buff myself and the partymates up. It includes Lullaby of course.
I had an idea going on for a while that if people sing to buff people up without the mic, it should have some kind of penalty. Like for example... it'll be reduced by half at Singing rank 5 if you use buff, along with the duration, and once you get rank 1 Singing, the buff and duration will be reduced by one-fourth and so on, that way, using mic and instrument will give you a better benefit.
Quote from Tropa;1216766:
Music Duration stat is a flat increase for lullaby, not percentage.
The flat increase is also applied for other Bard skills (not including Discord, of course), not just Lullaby.
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Phelline wrote on 2014-04-23 12:21
Wow biased opinions everywhere. A mage with aoe skills that doesn't need any aggro control is complaining about a skill that saves single target based skillsets. Ofc you wouldn't need it, you're a freaking mage. The only use for lullaby is too allow for talents without powerful aoe to survive. If you can do any sort of aoe lullaby is basically useless other than a way to recover if you screw up. If you nerfed it or removed it every skillset without a form of aggro control, melee fighter range, have a whole heck of a harder time than puppets gunner mage and alch. Yeah lullaby didn't exist in the good old days, but everything was a pain in the ass
to do and was slow as hell. Anything that helps me clear the repititive contents faster is ok in my books.