Let's Talk: Lullaby, easy mob control with just a click of a button.

• Gaby5011 wrote on 2014-04-22 10:44

  Quote from Slayerj;1216530:

  Yeah. I tired my best to remember that fact. I'm not end game but I know several end game people. I know a guy who used to clear BFT2 in under 1-2 minutes at times, and a mage who seems to have hit either a 120 or 140k+ crit blaze. I'll have to skype him about it later. I've always seen really REALLY strong players. I've also seen early on players too and I try and keep them in mind as I'm not early, nor am I an end game player. It just SEEMS that a lot of high level players are doing threads like this from time to time. So I jumped the gun by saying that.

  
  
  I've done 141k with a crappy combo card. 80ish without it.
• loli123 wrote on 2014-04-22 13:54
  so what skills are we gonna bash on and ask for a nerf even though it doesn't need it next ?
• Zeo wrote on 2014-04-22 17:14

  Quote from Tropa;1216633:

  It's mainly unbalanced cause you can literally walk into a room, lullaby and kill the enemies without a care in the world.
  
  
  I mostly GM'd bard myself for lullaby duration, and I wouldn't really mind if they gave it a "nerf".

  
  
  There's many other skills that can do that, not to mention the pet AoE.
  
  While we are at it, lets nerf Windmill, lets nerf Crash Shot, lets nerf the Act 6: Crisis, lets nerf Way of the Gun, etc etc.
  
  Like some people said, the "Lullaby effect" is useless once the affected mobs have been hit, and well yeah, good luck OHKOing an enemy without pissing it off with some of the HPs still leftover (and kill every single of them, in a room like Peaca or Lord spawn) within 60-ish seconds time frame.
  
  

  Quote from loli123;1216647:

  so what skills are we gonna bash on and ask for a nerf even though it doesn't need it next ?

  
  
  Quoted for truth.
• Eiryie wrote on 2014-04-22 17:14

  Quote from loli123;1216647:

  so what skills are we gonna bash on and ask for a nerf even though it doesn't need it next ?

  
  
  [S]Sharp Mind[/S] Loli Mastery.
• Ketchup wrote on 2014-04-22 19:32
  I think it's a great skill since I play solonogi.
• Jyu Viole Grace wrote on 2014-04-22 20:40

  Quote from Zeo;1216672:

  Like some people said, the "Lullaby effect" is useless once the affected mobs have been hit, and well yeah, good luck OHKOing an enemy without pissing it off with some of the HPs still leftover (and kill every single of them, in a room like Peaca or Lord spawn) within 60-ish seconds time frame.
  
  

  
  
  It's not about OHKOing an enemy. It's about preventing the multi-aggro and easily killing off enemies one by one. I'm not sure about how it is in Lord missions (since I don't do it that often), but it's very useful in Peaca and easily soloing or duoing MA. Either way it's not really that difficult to do. Specially when you put in a lot of other OP skills in the mix + reforges.
  
  On another note, please stop getting angry in this topic. This is supposed to be a discussion and nothing is currently being done to Lullaby AFAIK.
  
  As a side note, no one is saying that there aren't other skills in the game that also need a nerf. This is just a discussion for this specific skill.
• Zeo wrote on 2014-04-22 23:18

  Quote from Jyu Viole Grace;1216691:

  It's not about OHKOing an enemy. It's about preventing the multi-aggro and easily killing off enemies one by one. I'm not sure about how it is in Lord missions (since I don't do it that often), but it's very useful in Peaca and easily soloing or duoing MA. Either way it's not really that difficult to do. Specially when you put in a lot of other OP skills in the mix + reforges.

  
  
  Again, you still only have 60-ish seconds time frame while the mobs are asleep, plus not to mention... the mobs still can "aggro" you while they're asleep as well, so if they wake up, they can pretty much gang up on you. So, I still don't exactly see them as overpowered. Also, you just mentioned reforges, that's one of the problems right here, not everyone is willing to spend real money just to buy some damage/buff to make themselves stronger. Even if the reforge kits are released during events, they still need lot of luck to actually get decent reforges. DO NOT base off skills and whatever they're overpowered or underpowered just because you relied on reforges.
  
  

  On another note, please stop getting angry in this topic. This is supposed to be a discussion and nothing is currently being done to Lullaby AFAIK.
  
  As a side note, no one is saying that there aren't other skills in the game that also need a nerf. This is just a discussion for this specific skill.

  
  
  Err... what is the point of bringing this up... and I wasn't angry? I know this is a discussion, and I'm discussing why it shouldn't be nerfed, that is all.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-04-22 23:22

  Quote from Zeo;1216710:

  Again, you still only have 60-ish seconds time frame while the mobs are asleep, plus not to mention... the mobs still can "aggro" you while they're asleep as well, so if they wake up, they can pretty much gang up on you. So, I still don't exactly see them as overpowered. Also, you just mentioned reforges, that's one of the problems right here, not everyone is willing to spend real money just to buy some damage/buff to make themselves stronger. DO NOT base off skills and whatever they're overpowered or underpowered just because you relied on reforges.
  
  
  
  Err... what is the point of bringing this up... and I wasn't angry? I know this is a discussion, and I'm discussing why it shouldn't be nerfed, that is all.

  
  
  Reforges are a part of the game whether you like it or not, they are a core part of character progression at this point just as much as enchants are. You don't need to spend irl money to get reforges, some people dont spend a dime on nx and still get end game gear reforged. To exclude them from any calculations in game at this point is a grave mistake since thats basically like excluding enchanted gear since its the same concept (besides the fact that you spend money to get them which people seem to not be able to get past).
  
  I'm pretty neutral on this entire subject tho.
• Zeo wrote on 2014-04-22 23:26

  Quote from Nui;1216712:

  Reforges are a part of the game whether you like it or not, they are a core part of character progression at this point just as much as enchants are. You don't need to spend irl money to get reforges, some people dont spend a dime on nx and still get end game gear reforged. To exclude them from any calculations in game at this point is a grave mistake since thats basically like excluding enchanted gear since its the same concept (besides the fact that you spend money to get them which people seem to not be able to get past).
  
  I'm pretty neutral on this entire subject tho.

  
  
  Read my post up above again, I edited it at around same time you posted. I also do not rely on enchants as well, because you'll eventually learn how to combat well in Mabinogi without enchants and reforges like some of us did.
  
  Only thing that I actually do rely enchants on, is based off CP.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-04-22 23:36

  Quote from Zeo;1216713:

  Read my post up above again, I edited it at around same time you posted. I also do not rely on enchants as well, because you'll eventually learn how to combat well in Mabinogi without enchants and reforges like some of us did.

  
  
  Regardless of that addition, my main issue is that you seem to want to ignore reforges for all skill calculations and damage calculations and to write them off as something "extra" when in the end they arent extra they are just another part of gear at this point. With the addition of reforges to the game, rebalances for skills and damages needs to take into account said reforges and their potential or else that rebalance wont have nearly as much of an impact as it should. A good amount of the playerbase at least dabbles in reforges, so shouldn't skills and damage scaling take into account those people?
  
  Regardless of if YOU rely on enchants or not, the fact of the matter is most players do use enchants to some extent and that fact needs to be acknowledged when rebalancing skills as well as reforges do. You cannot implement an entirely new system of gear enhancement without account for the variables that go with it, like being able to hit insane amounts or clearing previously difficult content very quickly.
  
  Ignoring reforges is a bad thing, they need to be acknowledged due to the amount of people who use them and the fact that you have to keep in mind end game players (which you want to keep playing) clear content up to 20x+ as fast as people who dont use reforges. You need to scale both sides accordingly while not creating a situation where the people without reforges cant actually deal with the difficulty of the content and at the same time the people with reforges arent bored out of their mind 1 shotting all spawns of "end game" difficulty content.
• Zeo wrote on 2014-04-22 23:40

  Quote from Nui;1216717:

  Ignoring reforges is a bad thing, they need to be acknowledged due to the amount of people who use them and the fact that you have to keep in mind end game players (which you want to keep playing) clear content up to 20x+ as fast as people who dont use reforges. You need to scale both sides accordingly while not creating a situation where the people without reforges cant actually deal with the difficulty of the content and at the same time the people with reforges arent bored out of their mind 1 shotting all spawns of "end game" difficulty content.

  
  
  I'm not interested in rushing to clear everything within 1 minute and would rather enjoy the game, than be one of the people who worries about how fast they get stuffs done.
  
  And as for Lullaby, I just remembered the Frozen Blast from Elemental Wave, which freezes everything in a range distance (with few expectations, of course), and they don't "unfreeze" upon being attacked like Lullaby does.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-04-22 23:43

  Quote from Zeo;1216719:

  I'm not interested in rushing to clear everything within 1 minute and would rather enjoy the game, than be one of the people who worries about how fast they get stuffs done.
  
  And as for Lullaby, I just remembered the Frozen Blast from Elemental Wave, which freezes everything in a range distance (with few expectations, of course), and they don't "unfreeze" upon being attacked like Lullaby does.

  
  
  To each their own, however a game's balances cant be changed according to one group's play style. Thats my main point, whether or not u or ur friends use reforges they are still there and people use them so they need to be accounted for in skill balances and content difficulty.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-04-22 23:53

  Quote from Eiryie;1216673:

  [S]Sharp Mind[/S] Loli Mastery.

  
  
  *gently pets Eiry's head*
• Windyxflower wrote on 2014-04-23 00:12

  Quote from Nui;1216717:

  Regardless of that addition, my main issue is that you seem to want to ignore reforges for all skill calculations and damage calculations and to write them off as something "extra" when in the end they arent extra they are just another part of gear at this point. With the addition of reforges to the game, rebalances for skills and damages needs to take into account said reforges and their potential or else that rebalance wont have nearly as much of an impact as it should. A good amount of the playerbase at least dabbles in reforges, so shouldn't skills and damage scaling take into account those people?
  
  Regardless of if YOU rely on enchants or not, the fact of the matter is most players do use enchants to some extent and that fact needs to be acknowledged when rebalancing skills as well as reforges do. You cannot implement an entirely new system of gear enhancement without account for the variables that go with it, like being able to hit insane amounts or clearing previously difficult content very quickly.
  
  Ignoring reforges is a bad thing, they need to be acknowledged due to the amount of people who use them and the fact that you have to keep in mind end game players (which you want to keep playing) clear content up to 20x+ as fast as people who dont use reforges. You need to scale both sides accordingly while not creating a situation where the people without reforges cant actually deal with the difficulty of the content and at the same time the people with reforges arent bored out of their mind 1 shotting all spawns of "end game" difficulty content.

  
  
  I refuse to judge a skill based on reforges. Nerfing the skill will be a grave mistake because not everyone reforges. I don't care if they are seen as character progression or not, people with reforges are clearing content 20x faster. Even if you max out a skill set. Farm as much stats as you can, someone with reforges with almost always beat you out. How is that balanced?
  Whether is accessible by players, acessible by in game shop or even accessible by content drops someday, equipment shouldn't make you clear content 20x stronger then someone who doesn't. This is the true unbalance and it will remain so.
  
  On another note how about that lullaby.
• Tyskiyomy wrote on 2014-04-23 00:12

  Quote from Zeo;1216719:

  And as for Lullaby, I just remembered the Frozen Blast from Elemental Wave, which freezes everything in a range distance (with few expectations, of course), and they don't "unfreeze" upon being attacked like Lullaby does.

  
  
  You can't Ele-Wave Frozen every spawn though.