Ninja skills are a bit underwhelming?

• Kaeporo wrote on 2014-07-28 15:48
  I pretty much nailed the talent's usefulness prior to its release. It has good damage potential but the skills are too wonky and have far too many negative attributes for it to be "overpowered".
  
  I'm also amazed that smokescreen is even a skill. Monster defense has been an irrelevant statistic ever since they released...Smash.
• Jake wrote on 2014-07-28 15:49

  Quote from Stevenjr626;1235552:

  Is it just me, or does it appear that most people are depending on Reforges too much ? I dont reforge but depend on my Stats, Enchants, and Special upgrades for my damage..... it just seems that way now. Like "WHos trying to hit the highest insane damage"

  
  
  Are you saying people don't focus on every possible factor that contributes to increasing damage? I find it hard to believe there's people who like, only reforge and don't raise their stats ever lol
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-07-28 15:51

  Quote from Stevenjr626;1235552:

  Is it just me, or does it appear that most people are depending on Reforges too much ? I dont reforge but depend on my Stats, Enchants, and Special upgrades for my damage..... it just seems that way now. Like "WHos trying to hit the highest insane damage"

  
  
  It has always been that way, and like it or not, it will stay that way.
  Also, contrary to what people think, you don't actually need the whole gear reforged to hit the maximum of something possible. For example, you don't really need the other ranged skill reforges except for gloves and accs for maximum magnum shot damage.
  One more thing: many people who do have end game reforges also have end game enchants. Those people are using reforges because besides ranking stats, reforge is literally the only way they can raise their damage.
  
  

  Quote from Jake;1235582:

  Are you saying people don't focus on every possible factor that contributes to increasing damage? I find it hard to believe there's people who like, only reforge and don't raise their stats ever lol

  
  
  There are way too many cases of that in our server, sadly. Or NA Mabinogi in general. My logic is stats and enchants first, then reforge. Hence why most of my things still have shitty reforge. Still looking for Difficult ES here.
  
  

  Quote from DennouNeko;1235557:

  And to keep the thread from derailing, overall the ninja skills can be useful and have some decent damage even on low ranks. Some elements may be a bit hard to get used to at first, but I'm sure people will find proper ways to utilize even the not liked ones.
  Give me some time and I'll show you a ninja mage ;)
  (but for now gotta grind for AP)

  
  
  Hate to break it to you... but I'll speak for the current state of Ninja skills right now.
  Currently, almost every one of Ninja skills' damage/utility falls behind. Shadow bind? Easily surpassed by Lullaby. Smokescreen's defense reduction is pretty lulzy considering that your damage will make that reduction negligible. Shuriken charge has very inefficient damage for how long you have to charge, I wish this skill was really more like blaze. Explosive Kunai's cast animation/time is way too long to be actually used for the intended purpose, and Kunai storm still gets outclassed by skills like shooting rush and crash shot. Sakura abyss's cooldown is way too damn long to actually render it consistently useful. Shadow cloak is the only truly unique skill out of Ninja skills, but if you're gonna carry around a shuriken just to hide while giving up other utilities/damage other skillsets have to provide... it's not really worth it to carry a shuriken.
  
  Lastly... about "ninja mage" thing...
  To be an effective mage or ninja in the current meta, you have to have the stats for both skills. Meaning, you gotta have high int, str, and will. I'm gonna exclude reforges here because you don't really need reforges to faceroll things.
  First, enchanting sequence becomes a problem. Which one are you really gonna focus on?
  Second, which weapons will you utilize? And which skills? And how much damage will the skills do?
  
  In general, "ninja mage" can't really be a thing unless your character is already built towards late game stats. To be the most effective ninja, you have to be an effective warrior and/or lancer, fighter, carpenter, puppet, etc already, since ninja stats scale the same way as guns do, towards late game stats.
• Natural Harmonia Gropius wrote on 2014-07-28 15:53
  The only decent skills from this skill set are Shadow Cloak (for non-elves) and Shadow Bind. The rest are absolute garbage only worth ranking because they give stats.
• Jake wrote on 2014-07-28 15:55

  Quote from ironwoman;1235583:

  
  Shadow bind? Easily surpassed by Lullaby.

  
  
  One thing I'd like to say about this is you can get a reforge or master title and have infinite shadow bind. You can shadow bind the same thing more than once, so it can definitely prove to be more useful than lullaby in some situations (or you can combine them, shadow bind doesn't break lullaby). However you can't shadow bind things like NPC final bosses
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-07-28 15:57

  Quote from Jake;1235588:

  One thing I'd like to say about this is you can get a reforge or master title and have infinite shadow bind. You can shadow bind the same thing more than once, so it can definitely prove to be more useful than lullaby in some situations (or you can combine them, shadow bind doesn't break lullaby). However you can't shadow bind things like NPC final bosses

  
  
  I was already aware. The question is, is it worth it? Wouldn't there be more useful reforges other than shadow bind?
  At least that's my view.
• Jake wrote on 2014-07-28 16:07

  Quote from ironwoman;1235589:

  I was already aware. The question is, is it worth it? Wouldn't there be more useful reforges other than shadow bind?
  At least that's my view.

  
  
  Not in terms of ninja (depends how you're playing the game though I guess)
• DennouNeko wrote on 2014-07-28 16:25

  Quote from ironwoman;1235583:

  Hate to break it to you... but I'll speak for the current state of Ninja skills right now.
  Currently, almost every one of Ninja skills' damage/utility falls behind. Shadow bind? Easily surpassed by Lullaby. Smokescreen's defense reduction is pretty lulzy considering that your damage will make that reduction negligible. Shuriken charge has very inefficient damage for how long you have to charge, I wish this skill was really more like blaze. Explosive Kunai's cast animation/time is way too long to be actually used for the intended purpose, and Kunai storm still gets outclassed by skills like shooting rush and crash shot. Sakura abyss's cooldown is way too damn long to actually render it consistently useful. Shadow cloak is the only truly unique skill out of Ninja skills, but if you're gonna carry around a shuriken just to hide while giving up other utilities/damage other skillsets have to provide... it's not really worth it to carry a shuriken.
  
  Lastly... about "ninja mage" thing...
  To be an effective mage or ninja in the current meta, you have to have the stats for both skills. Meaning, you gotta have high int, str, and will. I'm gonna exclude reforges here because you don't really need reforges to faceroll things.
  First, enchanting sequence becomes a problem. Which one are you really gonna focus on?
  Second, which weapons will you utilize? And which skills? And how much damage will the skills do?
  
  In general, "ninja mage" can't really be a thing unless your character is already built towards late game stats. To be the most effective ninja, you have to be an effective warrior and/or lancer, fighter, carpenter, puppet, etc already, since ninja stats scale the same way as guns do, towards late game stats.

  
  
  Yeah... That part was kind of half-serious. I do realize that for example spellsword is pretty good basis for gunslinger (since both int and str increase damage), but it lacks the will for ninja.
  Guess it would end up as bolt magic being used between ninja skills, or once in a while switching to wand/staff to cast something more powerful, but ninja skills still wouldn't be at their full potential.
• Lingshen wrote on 2014-07-28 18:37
  I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but just because I choose to use these skills because I find the combat style engaging and entertaining, deliberately ignoring the other skills I have that I know are more efficient but just don't entertain me as much as these do, does that make me stupid? I'm more concerned that so many people just do what seems to do the most rather than stick to the style they find entertaining.
• Kenero wrote on 2014-07-28 18:43
  The one thing about Shadow Bind is that it's similar to frozen blast. You can hit the enemy more than once and they won't get knocked down or knocked back and can be applied multiple times compared to lullaby's 1 hit only. That and you will succeed with Shadow Bind on monsters not immune to it. Lullaby has a lower CD but can apply once plus it doesn't take an equipment slot.
  
  It's all about flavor.
• Lingshen wrote on 2014-07-28 18:49
  However, stacking Shadow Binds via multiple players using it doesn't extend the duration. Once the first one finishes, any that were stacked are canceled immediately.
• Stevenjr626 wrote on 2014-07-28 23:10

  Quote from Jake;1235582:

  Are you saying people don't focus on every possible factor that contributes to increasing damage? I find it hard to believe there's people who like, only reforge and don't raise their stats ever lol

  
  
  Hahaa i know a few people, Me and my friend were challenging each other on who can Get more Dexterity through skill means. I beat him to it and I finished weaving From F to Rank 1 in 3 days. He said "Screw that, Ill just buy reforges to get damage stats", to me that just seems so lazy and no fun at all. I would feel very accomplished after finishing life skills that give dex.
• Jake wrote on 2014-07-28 23:23

  Quote from Stevenjr626;1235680:

  Hahaa i know a few people, Me and my friend were challenging each other on who can Get more Dexterity through skill means. I beat him to it and I finished weaving From F to Rank 1 in 3 days. He said "Screw that, Ill just buy reforges to get damage stats", to me that just seems so lazy and no fun at all. I would feel very accomplished after finishing life skills that give dex.

  
  
  I guess your friend isn't aware he could be at least twice as strong if he invests in both skills and reforges. Shame.
• Stevenjr626 wrote on 2014-07-28 23:25

  Quote from Jake;1235588:

  One thing I'd like to say about this is you can get a reforge or master title and have infinite shadow bind. You can shadow bind the same thing more than once, so it can definitely prove to be more useful than lullaby in some situations (or you can combine them, shadow bind doesn't break lullaby). However you can't shadow bind things like NPC final bosses

  
  
  I got the master title and the 10 seconds is nice. I can usually pul out my guns and start shooting mobs easily and kill them within the 10 second shadow bind or just shadow bind again haha xD
  
  I just want to try to see my max damage without reforges first. Then when My stats become near end game, that will be the time where I will consider reforging because eventually I will hit a wall. The only reforged Weapon I use is one someone sold to me . My R5 HLB Fire 6.
• Stevenjr626 wrote on 2014-07-28 23:29
  I just want to try to see my max damage without reforges first. Then when My stats become near end game, that will be the time where I will consider reforging because eventually I will hit a wall. The only reforged Weapon I use is one someone sold to me . My R5 HLB Fire 6.