If it makes feel any better, I still do not have crisis escape. Even if I did, it would make no difference because I probably won't use it. I don't have any AoE pets aside from saga peggy and an event flamemare. I do not have rain casting ranked, I do not have many significant reforges,and I do not have any OP enchants. The content itself is pretty decent for me this way. I won't have too much trouble, and I won't plow through everything with 1-click (unless it's blaze).

Also for mana recovery; I'll just have a harder time clearing up inv space of all my event mp pots. With potion lore, pot poison is pretty rare if you're not spamming "J".

___

I like the renovation for the most part. I would honestly prefer to use melee over magic prior to the magic renovation. Only reason I didn't is because my melee is pretty weak (not anymore thanks to FH!)
Bad part is that my lance that I spent a fair amount of money to make is basically worthless to me now. I regret selling my matching focused blues and focused rainbows for 350k/400k back in the day.

Mana Recovery serves an interesting purpose: Giving mages, the talent that gives a ton of max MP (hello magic mastery), some real value out of the stat (I miss getting hard-shelled score scrolls from PTJ).

Quote from callback;1275047:

Mana Recovery serves an interesting purpose: Giving mages, the talent that gives a ton of max MP (hello magic mastery), some real value out of the stat (I miss getting hard-shelled score scrolls from PTJ).

Uncapped Meditation and uncapped Mana Shield gives far more mana than what Mana Recovery offers, and Bards now have Enduring Melody + Fantastic Chorus.

Magic Renovation basically removed all of Magic's downsides and cons, or made them very insignificant. :gloom3:

I notice a lot of people here say double bash can't be done with a slow weapon under certain circumstances. Man, I've been pulling that off without anything.

Quote from gundamweed;1275050:

I notice a lot of people here say double bash can't be done with a slow weapon under certain circumstances. Man, I've been pulling that off without anything.

Double bash as in actually using the skill itself twice or hitting twice using the skill only once?

Yeah double bash is hitting twice with one use, opposed to keeping up a chain (which can be done with any speed weapon).

Also as a mage I use Fantastic Chorus + Enduring and I rarely drink mana potions anymore (only when FB spamming gen bosses and stuff like that).

Quote from Rydian;1275058:

Yeah double bash is hitting twice with one use, opposed to keeping up a chain (which can be done with any speed weapon).

I was merely asking to confirm what he perceives to be "Double Bashing", because I've seen people get it wrong a few times already.

I know I can double bash with a clean Bipennis (slow weapon) and no buffs/effects. Which leads me to an assumption that double bash is a "feature" dependant on some server gimmicks.

Quote from Darkboy132;1275049:

Uncapped Meditation and uncapped Mana Shield gives far more mana than what Mana Recovery offers, and Bards now have Enduring Melody + Fantastic Chorus.

Magic Renovation basically removed all of Magic's downsides and cons, or made them very insignificant. :gloom3:

Who the hell does anything but Battlefield? Sure solo a mage will use enduring but I have to yell at my bard friends to use something besides Battle field 100% of the time and even then they rarely do it lol.

Also, removed its down sides? You mean other skill sets have downsides?! HOLY SHIT! (Well besides Range...but..that's range..which seems to only really be a real problem in NA honestly)

Melee: Great dmg, no real downside (cept adv heavy (not counting that at all) and high melee ping)
Lance: Lololol
Puppet: HUUUUUG MEEEEEE
Gunner: FLIPPY DODA BOOM
Ninja: Kunistormkunistormkunistormhidekunistorm
Alch: uhh...wait this one..hmm..ask Tropa. (even though my giant uses it lol) Well lots of AP cost.
Magic: Lots of AP cost. (Don't pull that range needing life skills for it's dex. I mean the core skills alone)
Bard: The reason nothing has a drawback zzzzzz~ lol
AoE pet class: The other reason nothing has a drawback zzzz-stun-knockback lol

A small amount of people seem to have an ungodly enough connection to be able to do it (more than just a fluke) with slow, although it probably can't match the consistency and complete ease of a faster weapon.

In my experience, even normal speed screws up sometimes which lowers DPS with a random normal attack every once in a while. On the other hand, fast is basically guaranteed easymode idiot-proof double bash 24/7.

Also, it seems to consider the speed in your main hand slot only. If I dual wield slow and fast, I can double bash when fast is in main hand but not when slow is.

Quote from Slayerj;1275061:

Who the hell does anything but Battlefield? Sure solo a mage will use enduring but I have to yell at my bard friends to use something besides Battle field 100% of the time and even then they rarely do it lol.

*Raises hand*

Also, removed its down sides? You mean other skill sets have downsides?! HOLY SHIT! (Well besides Range...but..that's range..which seems to only really be a real problem in NA honestly)

Melee: Great dmg, no real downside (cept adv heavy (not counting that at all) and high melee ping)
Lance: Lololol
Puppet: HUUUUUG MEEEEEE
Gunner: FLIPPY DODA BOOM
Ninja: Kunistormkunistormkunistormhidekunistorm
Magic: Lots of AP cost. (Don't pull that range needing life skills for it's dex. I mean the core skills alone)
Bard: The reason nothing has a drawback zzzzzz~ lol

• Melee: Balanced damage (disregard Bash, Final Hit, etc.), but very sluggish and excluding Windmill performed very poorly in multi-aggro situations, all while greatly interfering with party play.
  
• Lance: Normal attacks previously crippled mobility and created vulnerabilities, had a higher min attack range which was somewhat problematic.
  
• Puppet: Crowd control but long cooldowns, semi-high stamina cost, and greatly interfered with party play. Destroyed puppets would severely cripple the puppeteer (disregard Nimbus).
  
• Gunner: Crowd control and 1:1 potency, but very vulnerable to multi-aggro and very slow, along with many skills that have negligible merit.
  
• Ninja: Aggro control, but lacking in offensive power outside of Shuriken Charge, Kunai Storm, and Sakura.
  
• Magic: Very powerful and great crowd control, but slow start-up and taxing mana costs, though these drawbacks could be partially remedied with effort, an advantage that no other skillset has.
  
• If you mean Bard by itself, then pure support class that has little fighting prowess lol.
  

Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1275059:

I was merely asking to confirm what he perceives to be "Double Bashing", because I've seen people get it wrong a few times already.

Yeah...

I was agreeing and further clarifying what you were asking, to be sure that they knew what the question was.

Looking into some magic renovation videos... why the hell does post-reno METEOR use significantly less MP than Fireball? Even its lowest rank's MP cost is EQUAL to a single Fireball charge. I'm just stupefied at this.

Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1275059:

I was merely asking to confirm what he perceives to be "Double Bashing", because I've seen people get it wrong a few times already.

[video=youtube;J1X97NVHA5I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1X97NVHA5I&feature=youtu.be[/video]

That's done with iron maces, which are slow weapons. There is no use of any buff or attack speed set. My connection ins't the best either as I'm in South Texas, with a connection speed of ~30 mbps with 62 ms, according to this speed test thingy.