Thoughts on Renovation?

• Oberynn wrote on 2015-04-26 23:23
  The Axe one is really good for field bosses or girgash, since it makes everyone present deal more damage. 3% prot debuff for everyone is better than the other two debuffs.
• Esileruf wrote on 2015-04-26 23:33
  The debuff from blunts is also quite handy for soloing master lich.
• Daniel1235 wrote on 2015-04-27 09:10

  Quote from Esileruf;1272475:

  The debuff from blunts is also quite handy for soloing master lich.

  
  
  ... Or dealing with one in general. I have done 4-people Grandmaster mission literally one day before this update came out and it was hell to kill it... @.@
  What I did that eventually took it was spamming that one fighter chain that works on adv heavy stander: Charging->Spinning->Drop Kick (and luckily, most were crits and I was transformed[Infra Black]). Lost 3 full balloons (revival ones), ~10 Nao's (event) and 3 Guardian Soul Stones.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-27 18:56

  Quote from Oberynn;1272473:

  The Axe one is really good for field bosses or girgash, since it makes everyone present deal more damage. 3% prot debuff for everyone is better than the other two debuffs.

  
  
  Someone told me that almost every field boss, including Girgashiy, has no Defense, but instead have large protection and/or passive defenses. 3 protection, verses Girgashiy's 125, is just 1% damage reduction. How is that even going to help?
  
  

  Quote from Esileruf;1272475:

  The debuff from blunts is also quite handy for soloing master lich.

  
  
  Except Master Lich isn't a thing outside of mid-endgame, and there's no other monster really worth dazing. It's not even going to help newbies because Smash will just one-two shot anyway, with a follow up from Assault is usually a guaranteed kill.
• Oberynn wrote on 2015-04-27 19:09

  Quote from Darkboy132;1272605:

  Someone told me that almost every field boss, including Girgashiy, has no Defense, but instead have large protection and/or passive defenses. 3 protection, verses Girgashiy's 125, is just 1% damage reduction. How is that even going to help?

  
  
  Because people don't debuff it to 100~105% first with uppercut and bone dragon? And then lance reduces another 45%?
  And idk even if it's just 1% less damage reduction, how on earth is it not extremely useful when you got people doing 110k+ blade damages or just 16 people in general killing it a few % faster?
  
  It's like music, when was the last time you saw someone say "nah I'm not ranking singing, that 3% stronger overture for my entire party is not a big deal".
• Rydian wrote on 2015-04-27 19:19

  Quote from Oberynn;1272610:

  It's like music, when was the last time you saw someone say "nah I'm not ranking singing, that 3% stronger overture for my entire party is not a big deal".

  Axe Debuff: Changing to a specific weapon and using a specific skill to get a minor boost.
  
  Singing Rank: Ranking up a skill that will give a permanent minor boost to something you already do without having to change your in-battle behavior.
• Oberynn wrote on 2015-04-27 19:28

  Quote from Rydian;1272612:

  Axe Debuff: Changing to a specific weapon and using a specific skill to get a minor boost.
  
  Singing Rank: Ranking up a skill that will give a permanent minor boost to something you already do without having to change your in-battle behavior.

  
  
  No need to rank a skill, so it's even easier. And only one person out of the 16 needs to use it, just like only one person out of the 16 needs to cast battlefield.
  Whether people find it useful or not it's up to them, but we're doing under 1 minute vhm girgash runs now and the only thing that's changed is that our blades now have a little bit more oomph and the axe debuff is certainly part of it.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-04-27 22:38

  Quote from Oberynn;1272615:

  No need to rank a skill, so it's even easier.

  No need to change weapon slots to a type most people wouldn't carry around before, which is an action done during combat, a critical time.
  
  Comparing the two you did wasn't a good comparison because people are actually much more likely to rank up Song because it changes nothing they do in combat (so it doesn't require them to take any specific actions in battle that may slow down or interrupt their flow) while giving a boost because it's passive, and the boost is always there.
  
  Compare it to getting an Axe debuff, which requires a specific weapon most people didn't use before, and doesn't have a 100% activation rate.
  
  Whether it helps Girg raids or not isn't what I'm debating, the comparison to ranking up a passive boosting skill like Song is.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-27 23:42

  Quote from Oberynn;1272615:

  Whether people find it useful or not it's up to them, but we're doing under 1 minute vhm girgash runs now and the only thing that's changed is that our blades now have a little bit more oomph and the axe debuff is certainly part of it.

  
  
  Care to do a run with the debuff, and then without, then compare?
  
  

  Quote from Rydian;1272470:

  At R1 a bleed of 20% in 5 ticks is 100% extra damage so the sword bonus is kind of neat, but the activation rates are kinda' low

  
  
  Seriously, someone convince me that the bleed is "kind of" useful outside of niche situations.
• Kapra wrote on 2015-04-28 08:55

  Quote from Darkboy132;1272638:

  Seriously, someone convince me that the bleed is "kind of" useful outside of niche situations.

  
  That's the point. Swords were already top tier in terms of Close Combat weapons. They wanted to give it something so it wasn't left out but not make it amazing enough to outshine axes and blunt weapons even more so than they already are.
  
  Don't just think of what was added or how it can be useful or how something benefits you, think of what the developers must have been thinking.
• callback wrote on 2015-04-28 14:28

  Quote from Darkboy132;1272638:

  Care to do a run with the debuff, and then without, then compare?
  
  
  
  Seriously, someone convince me that the bleed is "kind of" useful outside of niche situations.

  
  
  Niche is about it. It's just melee's way of ticking down invincible mobs.
  
  Blunt is the useful one. For non-fighters to get the daze and have a chance to beat down master lich, duke, etc.
  
  As for axe and Girg, is it really that big of a deal? Compare it to already stacking dragon, upper, and smoke, what's an extra 9/3 going to do?
  
  Also you seriously blade VHM girg? Since when did people start running even hard legit? I still haven't seen a run that's not WM lock cheese.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-04-28 15:27
  [video=youtube;8GKUYSNjGok]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GKUYSNjGok[/video]
• Jake wrote on 2015-04-28 15:50

  Quote from callback;1272742:

  
  Also you seriously blade VHM girg? Since when did people start running even hard legit? I still haven't seen a run that's not WM lock cheese.

  
  
  It's really the only way to effectively clear VHM lol so yeah
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-28 18:37

  Quote from Kapra;1272711:

  That's the point.

  
  
  

  Quote from callback;1272742:

  Niche is about it.

  
  
  ... That's pretty lousy. It doesn't make Warrior Smash any better than Lance Smash.
  
  

  Blunt is the useful one. For non-fighters to get the daze and have a chance to beat down duke

  
  
  It doesn't work on duke, or he doesn't have "magic" skills. I've tried with fighter daze.
• callback wrote on 2015-04-28 23:52

  Quote from Rydian;1272754:

  [video=youtube;8GKUYSNjGok]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GKUYSNjGok[/video]

  
  
  I wanna do that... I'm a good shielder...