Thoughts on Renovation?

This is an archive of the mabination.com forums which were active from 2010 to 2018. You can not register, post or otherwise interact with the site other than browsing the content for historical purposes. The content is provided as-is, from the moment of the last backup taken of the database in 2019. Image and video embeds are disabled on purpose and represented textually since most of those links are dead.

To view other archive projects go to https://archives.mabination.com

callback wrote on 2015-05-16 01:25

Quote from gundamweed;1275075:
[Video: https://youtu.be/J1X97NVHA5I]

That's done with iron maces, which are slow weapons. There is no use of any buff or attack speed set. My connection ins't the best either as I'm in South Texas, with a connection speed of ~30 mbps with 62 ms, according to this speed test thingy.

Speedtest won't say anything relevant to mabi specifically. Still, being much closer to the west coast you are going to see a lower ping than most players in the game itself. Not sure if any mods come with a ping indicator you might be able to use.
Kapra wrote on 2015-05-16 01:39

Quote from Darkboy132;1275040:
"J" takes some effort to acquire and even then it punishes you. On the other hand, Mana Recovery has no punishment for using it.

Mana Recovery is useless if your max MP is low. It does not take as much effort to get MP Potions as it is to rank MP giving skills. Your main argument for Mana Recovery being overpowered is that it makes Mana Shield too powerful. Well first off, you want ot encourage mages to use Mana Shield because as it is, I see Mana Shield as a waste of Mana when using magic skills. As for switching to another weapon, having a magic weapon on hand and ranking mana giving skills does give some merit for using mana regeneration to replenish Mana Shield (and keep in mind that 50% would probably only endure 1~3 hits in places you would actually use Mana Shield). Sure you might want to give a penalty for using Mana Recovery and Mana Shield in tandem when not using a magic weapon, but you also don't want to discourage magic hybridization. The way Mabinogi is set up now, if a skillset requires too much attention and doesn't have room for one character to back it up with at least one other skillset, it probably isn't going to last (hence Mana Evaporation removal). Mabinogi is no longer a game where each player specializes in one specific weapon type and requires others to pick up another weapon (and I personally hate games that are like that, because it means you can't do most things by yourself, which isn't great game design in my eyes).

Quote from Darkboy132;1275070:
Looking into some magic renovation videos... why the hell does post-reno METEOR use significantly less MP than Fireball? Even its lowest rank's MP cost is EQUAL to a single Fireball charge. I'm just stupefied at this.

I must say that it is admirable how wholeheartedly you back things up, but I think you pick pointless things to back up. Why not something more significant? For the past few months I've been seeing you complain about many tiny things that have no significant impact, and altering them won't make even an insignificant difference in the game. You seem to set your heart on one specific thing, and keep a closed mind about it. The personality trait you have can be great if you use it on the right things.
gundamweed wrote on 2015-05-16 01:43

Quote from callback;1275079:
Speedtest won't say anything relevant to mabi specifically. Still, being much closer to the west coast you are going to see a lower ping than most players in the game itself. Not sure if any mods come with a ping indicator you might be able to use.

I might be much closer than a good portion of the playing population, but the fact is i'm still over 1,300 miles away from wherever the servers are based in los angeles, and my connection really isn't the best. All I'm saying is that the inability for many to double bash with a slow weapon might point to human error instead of external factors.
Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-16 01:59

Quote from Kapra;1275080:
Your main argument for Mana Recovery being overpowered is that it makes Mana Shield too powerful.

No, my #1 argument for Mana Recovery is that it just diminishes the need of all other MP modifiers. I don't ever use potions or invested in any spell book; Mana Recovery would make me want to have a Holy Eagle Mask even less.

So what of Meditation? If everyone is so adamant that Mana Recovery should stay, should Meditation be left untouched, or even DELETED? No offense to anyone but having this new skill added on top of all the existing methods to modify MP regeneration and consumption just seems greedy.

If Mana Shield is a problem, then just tweak it. What are we, RPG bosses that instantly regenerate out of the blue?

I must say that it is admirable how wholeheartedly you back things up, but I think you pick pointless things to back up. Why not something more significant? For the past few months I've been seeing you complain about many tiny things that have no significant impact, and altering them won't make even an insignificant difference in the game. You seem to set your heart on one specific thing, and keep a closed mind about it. The personality trait you have can be great if you use it on the right things.

I'm merely just dumbfounded how an Int magic spell ends up consuming more resources than their higher grade counterparts. Pointless or not, I still think it's odd.
Kelvas wrote on 2015-05-16 02:17

When mana recovery is released, mages like me would adjust play style to match it.

If you ever see me run dailies (except for spiders and shadow wizard), you'll notice that I use almost all bolt magic and occasional snap cast int magic or HS. I am very conservative with my mana usage and because of that, I never use my full potential because I would run out of mana within a few waves. In the past, someone argued with me here, asking "what is the good of spellwalk if you have to use potions just to use it?" That's a really good point, but by that logic, everything other than basic bolt magic is no good.
When mana recovery is released, I would be able to use int and adv magic more frequently but even with the new skill, I'll still have to use mana pots.

The other mana skills are pretty crappy. Party mate would probably murder me if I use enduring melody over BFO. Demi doesn't last long, and trans makes magic a million times weaker.

And yeah, I definitely agree that meditation needs some tweaking. Maybe get rid of the forced walking speed with melee weapons. It'll never be able to match the needs of mages though.
Mana shield is pretty good as it stands. It was never meant to be kept active for long (although decent mages probably can pull it off) % reduction is pretty good. Even I have 70~75% reduction without any MATK reforges.
Onule wrote on 2015-05-16 02:25

So my connection is bad enough that I'm able to bash with very slow weapons? It's a lot more difficulty to keep up than slow weapons tho.
[video=youtube;-MZtXhEQmug]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MZtXhEQmug[/video]
Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-16 02:26

Quote from Kelvas;1275086:
When mana recovery is released, mages like me would adjust play style to match it.

If you ever see me run dailies (except for spiders and shadow wizard), you'll notice that I use almost all bolt magic and occasional snap cast int magic or HS. I am very conservative with my mana usage and because of that, I never use my full potential because I would run out of mana within a few waves. In the past, someone argued with me here, asking "what is the good of spellwalk if you have to use potions just to use it?" That's a really good point, but by that logic, everything other than basic bolt magic is no good.
When mana recovery is released, I would be able to use int and adv magic more frequently but even with the new skill, I'll still have to use mana pots.

In my opinion, every resource, whether it be mana or stamina, should always be carefully managed. Since the beginning, magic has been very taxing on mana (such as the concept of Mana Evaporation, though I can't say I agree with it since it interfered with hybridizing) and I think it's a very fair drawback. If you're suddenly running out of mana, then just temporarily fall back onto Meditation + Enduring Melody + Fantastic Chorus, and stop using Battlefield Overture for a while (or if in a party just don't overwrite it), otherwise if you're dry it's your fault for not being conservative. Every time I mage, I always play recovery mode instead of damage bonuses.

I'm a big Meditation user, so you could say I'm "salty". Overall I don't like how Mana Recovery makes the Mage drawback of being MP conservative pretty damn insignificant, as well as being an unfair advantage (even though other skillsets don't have problems with resources, though they don't have actual regeneration bonuses or resource consumption cutdown that can be used in battle).
Osayidan wrote on 2015-05-16 02:27

If meditation wasn't practically useless at regenerating, especially with how slow it is during in-game daytime, then we wouldn't need mana recovery.
But the fact remains that meditation does suck, nexon isn't going to fix it for some mysterious reason, so the best we can get is this new skill. I don't like that it's done this way instead of fixing meditation but if they didn't listen to any KR complaints during the test phase why the hell will they listen to us worhtless north americans?
Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-16 02:34

Quote from Osayidan;1275091:
If meditation wasn't practically useless at regenerating, especially with how slow it is during in-game daytime, then we wouldn't need mana recovery.
But the fact remains that meditation does suck, nexon isn't going to fix it for some mysterious reason, so the best we can get is this new skill. I don't like that it's done this way instead of fixing meditation but if they didn't listen to any KR complaints during the test phase why the hell will they listen to us worhtless north americans?

I think the base (daytime) natural regeneration of 1 mana point per 20 seconds the main problem as well as Meditation still being capped. I'm just disappointed, upset, annoyed, angry, etc. etc. at how the lazy option has been widely accepted, it's like everyone wants to be babies spoon-fed by DevCAT.
Slayerj wrote on 2015-05-16 02:41

Quote from Osayidan;1275091:
If meditation wasn't practically useless at regenerating, especially with how slow it is during in-game daytime, then we wouldn't need mana recovery.
But the fact remains that meditation does suck, nexon isn't going to fix it for some mysterious reason, so the best we can get is this new skill. I don't like that it's done this way instead of fixing meditation but if they didn't listen to any KR complaints during the test phase why the hell will they listen to us worhtless north americans?

Actually I find meditation, at it's core, just right. It simply needs to be uncapped and have the stamina regin changed to be maybe 75% instead of 0% (probably change the walking bit without a magic weapon to a 15% movement speed decrease)

I used to hate it, even still after it was buffed later on, because it felt so worthless. But truthfully it does help. It doesn't help a truck load, but enough to matter. If I'm not using meditation, I run out of MP much faster than normal. If I've died and forgotten to turn it back on, I'll soon realize it as I find myself unable to cast a spell.

Meditation offers a nice little boost to keep you going just a bit longer, even more so at night. During the day it's just a small help. I'm fine with that due to the lore of how MP works in this game and because it's nice for a skill to differ how well it works based on something other than a stat.

Mana recovery will just offer a nice large boost every 3 minutes, day or night, before going back into the fight. I'll still most likely destroy the MP it gives me before a minute and a half is up, but that's fine. I don't mind drinking pots. I do mine having to rely on pots 99% of the time if a mission drags on too long while my friends that play anything that doesn't use mp can just sit down for a few seconds or just summon a nimbus and keep trucking along because how fast SP comes back.

Also, with how the current game is. I find mana shield ungodly useless in every location. It doesn't' help me with bosses because I'd rather deal a bit of dmg then die than just get smacked 2-4 times and do very little to no dmg. But then again I hate soloinogi so I don't have to worry about death being a failure.
gundamweed wrote on 2015-05-16 03:10

Quote from Onule;1275089:
So my connection is bad enough that I'm able to bash with very slow weapons? It's a lot more difficulty to keep up than slow weapons tho.

Now this is a real hero
Esileruf wrote on 2015-05-16 05:29

Quote from Slayerj;1275061:
Who the hell does anything but Battlefield? Sure solo a mage will use enduring but I have to yell at my bard friends to use something besides Battle field 100% of the time and even then they rarely do it lol.

[Image: http://puu.sh/hP1pf/b6f813a13a.png]

You

[Image: http://puu.sh/hP1qn/90a1817a4c.png]

Rang?

[Image: http://puu.sh/hP1r2/27994fe172.png]

Enduring is also the weakest of all the bard buffs since Fantastic Chorus exists now.

Quote from Onule;1275089:
So my connection is bad enough that I'm able to bash with very slow weapons? It's a lot more difficulty to keep up than slow weapons tho.
[video=youtube;-MZtXhEQmug]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MZtXhEQmug[/video]

Well, I'll go edit that. I tried for a good ten minutes to bash with a very slow axe and it wasn't double bashing at all ever. The window seems to be exceedingly small.
Bunny wrote on 2015-05-16 06:07

Quote from Onule;1275089:
So my connection is bad enough that I'm able to bash with very slow weapons? It's a lot more difficulty to keep up than slow weapons tho.
[video=youtube;-MZtXhEQmug]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MZtXhEQmug[/video]

Totally off topic, but I love that song. Thanks for the reminder that it exists!
Reyaxris wrote on 2015-05-16 06:47

Quote from Esileruf;1275113:
[Image: http://puu.sh/hP1pf/b6f813a13a.png]

You

[Image: http://puu.sh/hP1qn/90a1817a4c.png]

Rang?

[Image: http://puu.sh/hP1r2/27994fe172.png]

Enduring is also the weakest of all the bard buffs since Fantastic Chorus exists now.

Well, I'll go edit that. I tried for a good ten minutes to bash with a very slow axe and it wasn't double bashing at all ever. The window seems to be exceedingly small.

Holy Crap. I want your vivace gear :(
Esileruf wrote on 2015-05-16 12:40

Quote from Reyaxris;1275116:
Holy Crap. I want your vivace gear :(

Only at 5/9 bonus points so far. Accessory wont comply and give me more, and I still gotta rank up my shoes.
I have no idea how I managed to fail with over 100 reforges on my taunes to get DG max, but somehow roll on BOTH my fleets and my hebs vivace magic speed 1, the hebona shoes taking a single credne from 1>3L and getting that, the fleet feet taking three or four fines, already 3L.

Anyways, On topic, when mage renovation comes out I'll get back on the fact of mana recovery being insanely overmuch or not. Sans my vivace, I have mana reduction and a eweca/palala spellbook since HEMs are 30m again, and with the potential of the druid staff I'll see if I'll still have to worry about potions or if Mana recovery actually hands off-the-charts mp. Draining 500mp/3 mins doesn't seem an arduous task.

« First ‹ Prev 1 … 9 10 11 12 13 32 Next › Last »