Thoughts on Renovation?

• Kenero wrote on 2015-05-16 14:36
  Never thought I would see the day when I see a mage complaining about having mana.
  
  What a big change when even getting MP 100 potion was one of the challenges of being a mage back in the old days.
• Snowie Stormflower wrote on 2015-05-16 14:37

  Quote from Onule;1275089:

  So my connection is bad enough that I'm able to bash with very slow weapons? It's a lot more difficulty to keep up than slow weapons tho.
  [video=youtube;-MZtXhEQmug]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MZtXhEQmug[/video]

  
  
  uhhh, what 2h sword is that?
• Onule wrote on 2015-05-16 17:04

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1275135:

  uhhh, what 2h sword is that?

  
  
  Dragon blade.
• Kenero wrote on 2015-05-16 19:29
  B>Bash combo card
  
  ;~;
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-05-16 22:17

  Quote from Kenero;1275150:

  B>Bash combo card
  
  ;~;

  
  
  Hopefully not. Bash already deals a ton of damage.
  
  If they buffed Arrow Revolver to Bash's values, I wonder which would be stronger...
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-16 22:24

  Quote from Kenero;1275134:

  Never thought I would see the day when I see a mage complaining about having mana.

  
  
  There's having a big upkeep that can be less of an issue through long progression and investment. And then there's having a big upkeep that's largely not an issue anymore due to one fucking skill.
  
  

  [Image: http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/images/c/cc/Mana_Recovery.png]

  : Totally fucking fair.
• Osayidan wrote on 2015-05-16 22:25

  Quote from Kaeporo;1275177:

  Hopefully not. Bash already deals a ton of damage.
  
  If they buffed Arrow Revolver to Bash's values, I wonder which would be stronger...

  
  
  I'm not familiar with archery but doesn't AR have both reforges and combo card slots? If so I think AR would take that victory.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-05-16 22:48

  Quote from Osayidan;1275179:

  I'm not familiar with archery but doesn't AR have both reforges and combo card slots? If so I think AR would take that victory.

  
  
  Bash maintains its highest damage value and has a similar attack rate. Arrow Revolver has awful reforges and combo cards would only increase its damage output by around 30% at best (assuming Bash values). The key traits that might push it ahead would be piercing (new crossbows/bhafel), elemental reforges, and ammunition bonuses (bhafel/sharp bolts). Those would easily account for another ~60% damage in applicable situations.
  
  Either way, the archery update is super depressing.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-16 22:49

  Quote from Osayidan;1275179:

  I'm not familiar with archery but doesn't AR have both reforges and combo card slots? If so I think AR would take that victory.

  
  
  

  
  
  • Arrow Revolver:
    
    
    
    • 690% damage over a span of five shots
      
    • Takes ~10 seconds or so to fire all five due to aiming mechanics and shit.
      
    • Not guaranteed 100% accuracy, potentially making some shots miss.
      
    • Damage resets completely after fifth shot, requiring five more to do another 690%.
      
    
    
  • Bash:
    
    
    
    • 2100% over a span of five hits
      
    • Takes roughly one second or less to perform two hits, making it take about 2.5 seconds to reach the fifth hit.
      
    • 100% accuracy and 0% chance of missing.
      
    • Adds 460% for every hit after.
      
    
    

  
  
  Bash wins by a very long shot.
  
  

  Quote from Kaeporo;1275184:

  The key traits that might push it ahead would be piercing (new crossbows/bhafel), elemental reforges, and ammunition bonuses (bhafel/sharp bolts). Those would easily account for another ~60% damage in applicable situations.

  
  
  Unfortunately, minus the ammo bonuses, Bash also benefits from that as well via Silence 67th Floor Fanatic Greatsword, so once again Arrow Revolver doesn't remotely come close.
• Fracture wrote on 2015-05-16 22:53
  Yeah, not until it hit NA did I realize how utterly broken Bash is. The fact that, at the highest chain, you can do 960% damage to a target and stunlock it as long as it doesn't ping... What the fuck. I don't think any skillset has anything that comes even remotely close to Bash.
  
  Melee is absolutely top dog right now, and that's without even considering the OP buffs to FH. Even if r1 AR shots were buffed to r1 Bash values there would still be the reset and the chance to miss, not to mention it not being a free stunlock. Also unlike melee there are no skills that increase the Archery (or Magic/Alchemy/Shuriken/etc) damage a target takes.
• kaozking wrote on 2015-05-16 22:56

  Quote from Darkboy132;1275178:

  There's having a big upkeep that can be less of an issue through long progression and investment. And then there's having a big upkeep that's largely not an issue anymore due to one fucking skill.
  
  

  [Image: http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/images/c/cc/Mana_Recovery.png]

  : Totally fucking fair.

  
  
  Less of an issue through long progression and investment? You obviously mean through shit tons of bags full of mp pots. Even meditation is pretty worthless of keeping your mana up. Meditation is only noticeable during night anyways other than that its pretty useless. I can also blow through more than 50% mana in the time it'll take for it to come off cooldown. You're calling a skill that all it does is GIVE MANA totally unfair. What about bash? fh? wotg? I guess those are just totally acceptable. If anything this skill just lessens the use of mp pots which will still be used.
  
  PS. You saying that this skill is totally unfair is basically saying mp pots are unfair
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-16 22:58

  Quote from Fracture;1275187:

  Yeah, not until it hit NA did I realize how utterly broken Bash is. The fact that, at the highest chain, you can do 960% damage to a target and stunlock it as long as it doesn't ping... What the fuck. I don't think any skillset has anything that comes even remotely close to Bash.
  
  Melee is absolutely top dog right now, and that's without even considering the OP buffs to FH.

  
  
  If they didn't senselessly buffed it and left it as 300% on the fifth hit every after, it would be fine. All they needed to change was Bash being usable on multiple targets and nerfed the stun time a bit.
  
  

  Quote from kaozking;1275188:

  Less of an issue through long progression and investment? You obviously mean through shit tons of bags full of mp pots. Even meditation is pretty worthless of keeping your mana up. Meditation is only noticeable during night anyways other than that its pretty useless. I can also blow through more than 50% mana in the time it'll take for it to come off cooldown. You're calling a skill that all it does is GIVE MANA totally unfair. If anything this skill just lessens the use of mp pots which will still be used.

  
  
  Where are the drawbacks to this new skill then? It takes very little effort to learn Mana Recovery, and once its maxed out it instantly solves all your Mana problems. You'd be using mana potions far less, you wouldn't have to worry about falling back to Bard recovery, your desire for Holy Eagle Mask would be much less, and you'd never have to rely on Meditation ever again.
  
  If Meditation is a problem, tweak it. Don't just thoughtlessly slap in a new skill with a similar function and would end up replacing it.
  
  

  What about bash? fh? wotg? I guess those are just totally acceptable.

  
  
  Hasn't it been said countless times those are horribly unbalanced?
  
  

  PS. You saying that this skill is totally unfair is basically saying mp pots are unfair

  
  
  I'm pretty sure I've stressed this out. You have to put in effort to acquire MP pots (Potion Making, combined with the RNG factors revolving around collecting Mana Herbs), and even then using them would put you at risk of potion poisoning.
• Kelvas wrote on 2015-05-16 23:13
  I bet I can still run out of mana even using r1 mana recovery, meditation @ night, and triple effect spell book in general play.
• kaozking wrote on 2015-05-16 23:23

  Quote from Darkboy132;1275189:

  
  Where are the drawbacks to this new skill then? It takes very little effort to learn Mana Recovery, and once its maxed out it instantly solves all your Mana problems. You'd be using mana potions far less, you wouldn't have to worry about falling back to Bard recovery, your desire for Holy Eagle Mask would be much less, and you'd never have to rely on Meditation ever again.
  
  If Meditation is a problem, tweak it. Don't just thoughtlessly slap in a new skill with a similar function and would end up replacing it.
  
  
  
  Hasn't it been said countless times those are horribly unbalanced?
  
  
  
  I'm pretty sure I've stressed this out. You have to put in effort to acquire MP pots (Potion Making, combined with the RNG factors revolving around collecting Mana Herbs), and even then using them would put you at risk of potion poisoning.

  
  
  Whats the drawback on cater, mana shield, music skills, potion lore. its a [SIZE="4"]SUPPORT[/SIZE] skill for mages there's not supposed to be a drawback. Also it honestly doesn't take that much effort to make pots plus plenty of people sell pots so you can just buy them.
  
  Pot poisoning? You're kidding right? If you use so many mp pots that you go into pot poisoning you're either using mana shield and getting hit 5 million times or you're casting cancelling mp pot repeat.
• Kenero wrote on 2015-05-16 23:26
  Hm, I met a giant who was complaining that because of the melee renovation, humans are dangerously close to giants. He complained that final hit completely decimated his target in a group, and even more that celtic royal knights only get the enhancement and while the hammer gets nothing.
  
  What is your opinion? Do people really think humans are dangerously close to giants in terms of close combat (excluding fighter, puppets, etc.) ?