Thoughts on Renovation?

• Oberynn wrote on 2015-05-17 21:01
  On the topic of bash, I did a little testing between "fast" and "normal" weapons and was hoping someone else could check out and confirm to see that it's not just my connection playing tricks on me.
  
  I found that weapon speed does not only determine the window for whether you can double bash or not but also the overall refire of every other bash hit.
  
  For example, when using Celtics (fast speed) I would get something like:
  Time between bash 1 and bash 2 = 0.6 sec, time between bash 2 and bash 3 = 0.8 sec, time between bash 3 and 4 = 0.6 sec, time between bash 4 and 5 = 0.8 sec and it just alternates like that forever. This would mean 100 bash hits would take me 70 seconds.
  
  When using Fanatic 2h (normal speed) the time would more closely alternate between 0.7 seconds and 0.8 seconds making 100 bash hits take 75 seconds.
  
  Anyone else get similar results? if my connection is not playing tricks on me, then Celtics don't just have the damage advantage but can also deal that damage ~7% faster than a fanatic.
  
  For smash it takes me about 3.6 seconds between damage lines regardless of weapon speed so can more or less do 19 smash damages in the time it takes to do 100 "fast" bashes or 21 in the time it takes to do 100 "normal" bashes.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-17 21:19
  *Someone says Bash is slower than Smash*
  
  Me: :what:
• kumachan wrote on 2015-05-18 17:17
  Everyone here is talking about how the renovations affected lategame but noone cares about the early or midgame qq. Lategame is already broken with them reforges and its somewhat good, because it brings a shitton of cash for nexon to keep up the servers and gives players more versatility. Ive always thought that mabinogis early and midgame are really balanced and fun, thats why i have been playing for like two years already. We would do hard shadow missions with guildies, everyone around 2k cumu, each kill the same amount of monsters and have a lot of fun, no matter what the talent. I also think this balance is what keeps new players playing this game but after the FH's changes here's what usually happens: our dual-sword human just kills 90% of the monsters while we can barely do anything... and it has a 4-minute cooldown now aswell. Oh yeah we got the 4-minute window to do something in the longer shadow missions but all the boss fights or most fun parts of the game are simply boring now for the rest of us and its not like we can ask him to not use it... I like bash but final hit is too much 400% dmg is like smashing every 0.5 seconds whilst teleporting to everyone and no knockback either
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-18 17:48
  All I can say is that Bash and Final Hit are just blatantly overpowered and pretty much rendering many skills obsolete while making what was once very challenging to laughably easy.
  
  Also, Final Hit's always had a 4 minute cooldown.
• kumachan wrote on 2015-05-18 19:52
  ive wanted to quit this game countless of times because of that and i fear that many other new players might also if they find out about it :/
• M wrote on 2015-05-18 19:55
  True, most members of this forum focus on the end-game impacts. Most of the posting member-base are later game players, however I too wish there was a little more discussion on early-mid gameplay.
• Slayerj wrote on 2015-05-18 20:03
  I can see bash being a big help for early game players. That stun can help them put archers and multi agro on ice for a few seconds as they deal with things.
  
  Rage impact I don't see as useful due to it's heavy SP cost, but I can still see it being nice for a new player.
  
  The smash changes will help them deal with some bosses and mobs a little better as well, provided they can get it off.
  
  Even the early ranks of Final Hit will help a new player with the dmg increase.
  
  Regarding the magic update...
  Mana recovery will be a god send for new mages...provided they have enough AP and a decent enough of mana to make it work.
  The shockwave change is nice for them too, but in the end will just drain their mana faster.
  Ice bolt will really help starting mages out a truck load with that mana recovery.
  Being able to get mediation easier for the first two ranks past F is REALLY freaking nice too.
  
  The cast speed changes for most magic will help new mages train those skills a bit faster as well.
  
  On to archery...
  I'm..not really sure. No new player is going to get spider shot easily with the amount of work you need to put into carpentry and tailoring to get it. (I think)
  Urgent shot will help a fair bit but could till be better imo.
  Still don't fucking know what the above 70% aim bit means.
  Mirage missile will be nice for elves early on, even more so now that it slows and has the ability to kill. (It..does slow right?)
  The crossbow change is nice for anyone that would just rather use a crossbow too!~
• Kelvas wrote on 2015-05-18 20:14
  I personally don't care too much. As long as the game enjoyable, I will still play.
  Renovation is not as big of a deal as some would make it out to be because most players are not end game and therefore do not take advantage of every single factor that affects damage. Sure, the game is much easier now post renovation, but regarding those it affects the most, does it really get that much easier if they're already killing everything effortlessly? Early game and mid game are more fun with renovation because there are multiple paths to obtain damage (and won't need every factor to do so; less grinding required).
  For mid-game players, most things are not too hard and are still fun. It is the most enjoyable stage in my opinion. Because of renovation, enchants and reforges are less of a 'must' than it was before, since power comes pretty easily now. That equals less grinding and more fun.
• Romanji wrote on 2015-05-19 00:37
  Everyone who knows me knows how I feel on it.
  The new Bash and new FH are disgusting examples that nexon doesn't play their own game.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fp7_s07SVc
  
  why oh why can a player activate 1~10 bashes in the time it takes to smash twice yet a bash can do 40% less than a human/elf 1H smash and stun infinitely provided nothing stops you or you knock the target back?
  
  It outdamages magnum shot spam pre-G16S2, out-damages Giant lance smash, outdamages CC firebolt spam, and FH 400% per hit at r1? duals = 800%? teleportation? immune to stun? can be knocked back and still use FH? you can pot? man FH can tank harder than windguard at least they can pot...
  
  But comparisons aside, the game should be HARDER not EASIER. The game was damn-near-Darksouls-ian back in the beginning and I loved it. we all loved it. it was scary, rewarding, exciting. Now it's full of Min/max-tards that would sacrifice their own parents for 50 more max damage (ontop of their 600 max dmg with fists) Just to solo something they could already solo but solo it 10 seconds faster.
  
  Although I can't blame them there's not much else to do. the only pseudo "difficulty" nexon can come up with are enemies immune to everything and enemies with x10 dmg and x10 HP.
  
  I think they should give enemies instant loading skills, make ele-reforges more of a double edged blade (so the same percentage bonus damage TOWARDS neutral mobs is the same percentage damage bonus FROM neutral mobs)
  
  All high damage moves need more of a charge time, AoE damage should be significantly nerfed(windmill's fine), bring back the windmill -HP, but make it "current" hp, raise it for giants, lower it for elves, buff damage for giants by at least 20% higher than elves, 10% from humans for most str/willbased skills, raise dex/int based skill damage for elves 20% higher than giants, 10% higher from humans. Bash on 5th hit should 1hit Knock back. Smash should do more damage but have a longer charge time like focus fist. fighter shouldn't be so easily broken by instant cooldowns because of enemy frames and crap, Ninja and alchemy shouldn't be ... (the end-all). Frozen blast, Sandburst, Raincast, lullaby should be nerfed so that if an enemy aggros you and isn't affected and isn't killed or stunlocked they should wake up/break free/nullify the effect gripping their allies. and the game needs better group AI strategies to combat the new skills we have.
  
  BUT I DIGRESS. Renovation so far, fun but doesn't fix shit.
  
  Nexon truly never plays their own game.
• Twin wrote on 2015-05-19 01:27

  Quote from Romanji;1275507:

  Everyone who knows me knows how I feel on it.
  The new Bash and new FH are disgusting examples that nexon doesn't play their own game.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fp7_s07SVc
  
  why oh why can a player activate 1~10 bashes in the time it takes to smash twice yet a bash can do 40% less than a human/elf 1H smash and stun infinitely provided nothing stops you or you knock the target back?
  
  It outdamages magnum shot spam pre-G16S2, out-damages Giant lance smash, outdamages CC firebolt spam, and FH 400% per hit at r1? duals = 800%? teleportation? immune to stun? can be knocked back and still use FH? you can pot? man FH can tank harder than windguard at least they can pot...
  
  But comparisons aside, the game should be HARDER not EASIER. The game was damn-near-Darksouls-ian back in the beginning and I loved it. we all loved it. it was scary, rewarding, exciting. Now it's full of Min/max-tards that would sacrifice their own parents for 50 more max damage (ontop of their 600 max dmg with fists) Just to solo something they could already solo but solo it 10 seconds faster.
  
  Although I can't blame them there's not much else to do. the only pseudo "difficulty" nexon can come up with are enemies immune to everything and enemies with x10 dmg and x10 HP.
  
  I think they should give enemies instant loading skills, make ele-reforges more of a double edged blade (so the same percentage bonus damage TOWARDS neutral mobs is the same percentage damage bonus FROM neutral mobs)
  
  All high damage moves need more of a charge time, AoE damage should be significantly nerfed(windmill's fine), bring back the windmill -HP, but make it "current" hp, raise it for giants, lower it for elves, buff damage for giants by at least 20% higher than elves, 10% from humans for most str/willbased skills, raise dex/int based skill damage for elves 20% higher than giants, 10% higher from humans. Bash on 5th hit should 1hit Knock back. Smash should do more damage but have a longer charge time like focus fist. fighter shouldn't be so easily broken by instant cooldowns because of enemy frames and crap, Ninja and alchemy shouldn't be ... (the end-all). Frozen blast, Sandburst, Raincast, lullaby should be nerfed so that if an enemy aggros you and isn't affected and isn't killed or stunlocked they should wake up/break free/nullify the effect gripping their allies. and the game needs better group AI strategies to combat the new skills we have.
  
  BUT I DIGRESS. Renovation so far, fun but doesn't fix shit.
  
  Nexon truly never plays their own game.

  
  
  Nah, they play their own game. Nexon found out a way to work you all and get massives amount of money in the process. While creating their own ''white knights'' to defend the mess they created, even when they know they're wrong.
  
  
  '' Nexon: You do not care about quality, buy reforges and be the best :hypno: ''
• Kenero wrote on 2015-05-19 05:40

  Quote from Romanji;1275507:

  Everyone who knows me knows how I feel on it.
  The new Bash and new FH are disgusting examples that nexon doesn't play their own game.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fp7_s07SVc
  
  why oh why can a player activate 1~10 bashes in the time it takes to smash twice yet a bash can do 40% less than a human/elf 1H smash and stun infinitely provided nothing stops you or you knock the target back?
  
  It outdamages magnum shot spam pre-G16S2, out-damages Giant lance smash, outdamages CC firebolt spam, and FH 400% per hit at r1? duals = 800%? teleportation? immune to stun? can be knocked back and still use FH? you can pot? man FH can tank harder than windguard at least they can pot...
  
  But comparisons aside, the game should be HARDER not EASIER. The game was damn-near-Darksouls-ian back in the beginning and I loved it. we all loved it. it was scary, rewarding, exciting. Now it's full of Min/max-tards that would sacrifice their own parents for 50 more max damage (ontop of their 600 max dmg with fists) Just to solo something they could already solo but solo it 10 seconds faster.
  
  Although I can't blame them there's not much else to do. the only pseudo "difficulty" nexon can come up with are enemies immune to everything and enemies with x10 dmg and x10 HP.
  
  I think they should give enemies instant loading skills, make ele-reforges more of a double edged blade (so the same percentage bonus damage TOWARDS neutral mobs is the same percentage damage bonus FROM neutral mobs)
  
  All high damage moves need more of a charge time, AoE damage should be significantly nerfed(windmill's fine), bring back the windmill -HP, but make it "current" hp, raise it for giants, lower it for elves, buff damage for giants by at least 20% higher than elves, 10% from humans for most str/willbased skills, raise dex/int based skill damage for elves 20% higher than giants, 10% higher from humans. Bash on 5th hit should 1hit Knock back. Smash should do more damage but have a longer charge time like focus fist. fighter shouldn't be so easily broken by instant cooldowns because of enemy frames and crap, Ninja and alchemy shouldn't be ... (the end-all). Frozen blast, Sandburst, Raincast, lullaby should be nerfed so that if an enemy aggros you and isn't affected and isn't killed or stunlocked they should wake up/break free/nullify the effect gripping their allies. and the game needs better group AI strategies to combat the new skills we have.
  
  BUT I DIGRESS. Renovation so far, fun but doesn't fix shit.
  
  Nexon truly never plays their own game.

  
  
  If you think that is bad, watch this:
  
  [video=youtube;sdzmmnrgcmU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdzmmnrgcmU[/video]
  
  With a pair of 56th floor 48th floor Royal Celtic Knight Sword r6, any human can obtain the power of the giants. Also I got Fire 2 on these swords.
  
  I demonstrated both bash and final hit using the celtic swords.
  
  To add, the basic level barriers have 1,000,000 hp, after my FH session, they had roughly 200k left, meaning I did 800k in one final hit session, or close to that. Since I destroyed a barrier with bash, it means in under 2 minutes, I was able to deal 1,000,000 worth of damage.
  
  The set effect only works on humans. Not only it makes bash stronger, it also makes the critical damage higher.
  
  It's weird such an amazing set effect is essentially human only.
• Romanji wrote on 2015-05-19 05:45

  Quote from Twin;1275536:

  Nah, they play their own game. Nexon found out a way to work you all and get massives amount of money in the process. While creating their own ''white knights'' to defend the mess they created, even when they know they're wrong.
  
  
  '' Nexon: You do not care about quality, buy reforges and be the best :hypno: ''

  
  
  Yeah i've noticed that on Reddit, Youtube, Facebook, even here. Every time I, a 6 year player of Mabinogi states something wrong with the game. Someone who's played for 1~3 years cries and whines and gripes saying the game's perfect and I should quit. Or I'm elitist, or I'm just butthurt.
  
  Just something I've noticed, whenever a player gets too OP. they quit soon afterwards. Happens constantly, player spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars on reforges/gacha/(paid RB's back in the day), they get big enough to brag, solo a bunch of end-game content then quit because they have nothing to do.
  
  I refuse to pay one red cent to Nexon until they fix Rafting(loading Thunder/Icespear/Fireball and being unable to fire despite being in range then locking up being unable to move, balancing(FUCKING BASH AND FINAL HIT BUT WINDGUARD, RANGE, STOMP, TAUNT, FINAL SHOT ARE ALL WORTHLESS COMPARED TO EVERY NEW SKILL), enemy (difficulty; stop just augmenting damage and health, give them more skills better AI to combat new skills and give enemies instant load skills), Gunner positioning/aim(>loads shooting rush, aims at a group of 9 and the game puts red arrows above their heads then proceeds to have me fly in the exact opposite direction to attack one enemy), fighter cooldown/locking glitches(I see you used charging strike, but your teammate used smash, time to fuck fighters again!), "cannot mount moving/too distant pet" despite being INSIDE IT, "cannot (perform life skill) because your arms are too short" (Move closer, path finder AI?), Stop ruining Blacksmithing and enchanting, and magic craft and engineering and tailoring by releasing every single solitary piece of gear r2,1 reforged fully enchanted Xgrade quality in a gachapon..
  
  
  I will rant till I fucking die, but there are problems, there are solutions, stop humping nexon's goddamn legs for NX and gacha and fashion, con-fucking-front them and tell them you refuse to support this blatant disregard for the problems that have existed in the game for years and that you will continue to buy NX should they fix them.
  
  
  I await my hate mail, rain it on me for it makes me stronger
• Rydian wrote on 2015-05-19 05:49
  Maybe people are just tired of hearing you constantly complain where it could not possibly fix anything.
  
  Go complain to the people who actually make and run the game.
  
  They can do shit.
  
  We can't, and we're tired of hearing the complaining.
• Romanji wrote on 2015-05-19 06:14

  Quote from Rydian;1275568:

  Maybe people are just tired of hearing you constantly complain where it could not possibly fix anything.
  
  Go complain to the people who actually make and run the game.
  
  They can do shit.
  
  We can't, and we're tired of hearing the complaining.

  
  
  One person can't do shit, so I talk to the "community" to be a force to work together for a common goal. But I mean if you don't want a certain president to be in office, I'm sure you sit at home and gripe about it to yourself and tell everyone you didn't vote for him.
  
  --- Merged Double Post ---
  
  

  Quote from Kenero;1275563:

  If you think that is bad, watch this:
  
  [video=youtube;sdzmmnrgcmU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdzmmnrgcmU[/video]
  
  With a pair of 56th floor 48th floor Royal Celtic Knight Sword r6, any human can obtain the power of the giants. Also I got Fire 2 on these swords.
  
  I demonstrated both bash and final hit using the celtic swords.
  
  To add, the basic level barriers have 1,000,000 hp, after my FH session, they had roughly 200k left, meaning I did 800k in one final hit session, or close to that. Since I destroyed a barrier with bash, it means in under 2 minutes, I was able to deal 1,000,000 worth of damage.
  
  The set effect only works on humans. Not only it makes bash stronger, it also makes the critical damage higher.
  
  It's weird such an amazing set effect is essentially human only.

  
  
  No offence, but I know humans are quite powerful with the set but the purpose I was trying to make earlier was a comparison between smash and bash xD not just showing how powerful bash is. Even if smash did 5k and bash did 4k. it's still overpowered because bash stuns longer than smash ever will, and you can do around 8 bashes per smash
• Twin wrote on 2015-05-19 10:28

  Quote from Romanji;127555:

  Yeah i've noticed that on Reddit, Youtube, Facebook, even here. Every time I, a 6 year player of Mabinogi states something wrong with the game. Someone who's played for 1~3 years cries and whines and gripes saying the game's perfect and I should quit. Or I'm elitist, or I'm just butthurt.
  
  I will rant till I fucking die, but there are problems, there are solutions, stop humping nexon's goddamn legs for NX and gacha and fashion, con-fucking-front them and tell them you refuse to support this blatant disregard for the problems that have existed in the game for years and that you will continue to buy NX should they fix them.
  
  
  I await my hate mail, rain it on me for it makes me stronger

  
  
  Nah, I don't hate you. I see where you're coming from lol
  
  
  I seen people just go off on eachother because they say Final Hit is OP and doesn't require you too think much. I've seen people defend new Final Hit with their lives, like being OP in any game is good.
  
  Some users have become so overkill damage dependent / easy OP skill mob control / stun-pet dependent that they literally can't do some content if such was properly balanced.Though Mabinogi does take some skill too play, the amount of required is very minimal.
  
  
  

  Quote from Romanji;127555:

  Just something I've noticed, whenever a player gets too OP. they quit soon afterwards. Happens constantly, player spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars on reforges/gacha/(paid RB's back in the day), they get big enough to brag, solo a bunch of end-game content then quit because they have nothing to do.

  
  
  
  
  Basically this. When Mabinogi quits you (no not you quit Mabinogi) Nexon says get outta here, and bring the next wave of customers. It's hard to have a good game when the balancing is cheap as hell. Some people just gotta let their OP damage and methods go too fix this game (Otherwise, I love to hear your revamp idea)
  
  The only solid reason to stick around in Mabi after you ''beat it'' is friends atm.
  
  

  Quote from Romanji;127555:

  
  I refuse to pay one red cent to Nexon until they fix Rafting(loading Thunder/Icespear/Fireball and being unable to fire despite being in range then locking up being unable to move, balancing(FUCKING BASH AND FINAL HIT BUT WINDGUARD, RANGE, STOMP, TAUNT, FINAL SHOT ARE ALL WORTHLESS COMPARED TO EVERY NEW SKILL), enemy (difficulty; stop just augmenting damage and health, give them more skills better AI to combat new skills and give enemies instant load skills), Gunner positioning/aim(>loads shooting rush, aims at a group of 9 and the game puts red arrows above their heads then proceeds to have me fly in the exact opposite direction to attack one enemy), fighter cooldown/locking glitches(I see you used charging strike, but your teammate used smash, time to fuck fighters again!), "cannot mount moving/too distant pet" despite being INSIDE IT, "cannot (perform life skill) because your arms are too short" (Move closer, path finder AI?), Stop ruining Blacksmithing and enchanting, and magic craft and engineering and tailoring by releasing every single solitary piece of gear r2,1 reforged fully enchanted Xgrade quality in a gachapon..

  
  
  
  It's always good to see a player demand more from a game,we basically have that right. Since were you know, giving them money to began with.
  
  I would have left this game ages ago with my GF and friends if someone else owned a game similar to Mabi, NOT hosted by Nexon.It's unfortunate though because this game has such potential.
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Rydian;127558:

  Maybe people are just tired of hearing you constantly complain where it could not possibly fix anything.
  
  Go complain to the people who actually make and run the game.
  
  They can do shit.
  
  We can't, and we're tired of hearing the complaining.

  
  
  That's not true actually, and you know it. Otherwise G16s2 would have been a lot more worse.
  
  As people who give Nexon money and keep their entire company running, we have that right to demand they get their stuff together.