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Phunkie wrote on 2010-08-19 23:41
Quote from Kazuni;131165:
No, because then you'd have to be reduced to a walk when using meditation with or without a wand because that's related to mana evaporation. Also, that's the only thing that's keeping someone from casting something like fireball -> thunder -> ice spear or something.
It was a core part of the idea of a wand.
Then can we agree that the Healing Wand is a piece of crap?
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Lan wrote on 2010-08-19 23:44
Quote from Phunkie;131166:
Then can we agree that the Healing Wand is a piece of crap?
It has a use, that's enough.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-08-19 23:45
Quote from Lan;131170:
It has a use, that's enough.
Throwing Attack had a use pre-G12, but it wasn't enough.
It was revamped.
A use doesn't justify usefulness.
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Kazuni wrote on 2010-08-19 23:47
Quote from Phunkie;131172:
Throwing Attack had a use pre-G12, but it wasn't enough.
It was revamped.
A use doesn't justify usefulness.
Healing wand -> healing.
There's a limit to how much healing you can do.
Throwing attack -> damage.
The range for damage is huge.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-08-19 23:55
I don't understand why you people don't see how useless the Healing Wand is (or its ego).
Or how you defend it so strongly.
Truth is, it sucks. You get a Mana Shield bonus from using Healing Wands, but for what? So you can stand at the corner and heal some more? That's all you can do with the darn wand-- heal. Gosh, you should be able to injure undead monsters with Heal or something, like someone else said in this thread.
Honestly, I don't know if any of you have been the party healer before, but there is no satisfaction in standing at a corner and healing everyone else. It's boring as hell. Sure, you keep everyone alive, but it's boring as hell. Sorta like that Their Method shadow mission in Tara. It's quite easy, but all you gotta do it WM, after WM, after WM. It's boring and I don't do it for that reason.
Sure, a Cleric should heal his/her party members, but he/she should be able to do something a little more outside of that. More buffs, perhaps, like Andy said. Or an actual offensive skill with the Healing Wand. They can use Blaze, but that's not my point. Blaze is very much Combat Wand-specific. There should be something very much Healing Wand-specific, even you are able to use it with other wands as well.
Before Blaze, the Combat Wand was useless. Before G11 Party Healing, the Healing Wand was useless. It's a little better now, but it needs something more outside the scope of JUST healing. Something more party influenced, more offensive as I've been saying all along.
Standing at a corner and healing throughout a whole dungeon? No, thanks.
I do it because I want to, you say? That is very true. But I'd like more opportunities to do other things while playing the Cleric role in the party. Is that too much to ask for, really?
Just be a little more open-minded. I don't even think most of you even considered my idea for even a minute. I haven't even heard any changes to my idea or other ways to making wielding a Healing Wand more useful. All I hear are no's and no's. Why so hesitant towards a little change? It ain't always bad.
That's all I have to say.
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Kazuni wrote on 2010-08-20 00:11
Quote from Phunkie;131179:
I don't understand why you people don't see how useless the Healing Wand is (or its ego).
Or how you defend it so strongly.
Truth is, it sucks. You get a Mana Shield bonus from using Healing Wands, but for what? So you can stand at the corner and heal some more? That's all you can do with the darn wand-- heal. Gosh, you should be able to injure undead monsters with Heal or something, like someone else said in this thread.
Honestly, I don't know if any of you have been the party healer before, but there is no satisfaction in standing at a corner and healing everyone else. It's boring as hell. Sure, you keep everyone alive, but it's boring as hell. Sorta like that Their Method shadow mission in Tara. It's quite easy, but all you gotta do it WM, after WM, after WM. It's boring and I don't do it for that reason.
Sure, a Cleric should heal his/her party members, but he/she should be able to do something a little more outside of that. More buffs, perhaps, like Andy said. Or an actual offensive skill with the Healing Wand. They can use Blaze, but that's not my point. Blaze is very much Combat Wand-specific. There should be something very much Healing Wand-specific, even you are able to use it with other wands as well.
Before Blaze, the Combat Wand was useless. Before G11 Party Healing, the Healing Wand was useless. It's a little better now, but it needs something more outside the scope of JUST healing. Something more party influenced, more offensive as I've been saying all along.
Standing at a corner and healing throughout a whole dungeon? No, thanks.
I do it because I want to, you say? That is very true. But I'd like more opportunities to do other things while playing the Cleric role in the party. Is that too much to ask for, really?
Just be a little more open-minded. I don't even think most of you even considered my idea for even a minute. I haven't even heard any changes to my idea or other ways to making wielding a Healing Wand more useful. All I hear are no's and no's. Why so hesitant towards a little change? It ain't always bad.
That's all I have to say.
A lot of people said the same thing about bards in the original G13 classes, but everyone just said to stay an adventurer and refused to see that the bard class was just a support class.
Some classes are just support classes. Some jobs can't be mixed with offense. That's just how it is.
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Lan wrote on 2010-08-20 00:17
Quote from Kazuni;131189:
A lot of people said the same thing about bards in the original G13 classes, but everyone just said to stay an adventurer and refused to see that the bard class was just a support class.
Some classes are just support classes. Some jobs can't be mixed with offense. That's just how it is.
This.
Bards are support and "Melee Instruments" Have little use.
Healers=Support. If they're tired of being support, well this is Mabi.
Also the attack that effects undead? Wouldn't that take A LOT of work? Plus Zombies are totally IMMUNE to all magic so yeah :s
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Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-08-20 00:18
Right now, Healing is a horrible support though. They can't go in and save someone last second, and if someone's caught in a strong monster's combo, they're dead.
I'm not saying we want healers to have a high damage output, but if they can even push a monster back to save an ally, without getting aggro'd him/herself, wouldn't that be much more useful than having the party member die and have to be revived?
Any little thing to make them a bit more useful, really.
That's what this thread is fore, finding that little thing that would fit within the "healer" sub-class, and make them more useful.
Edit: Kazu, I don't understand what you meant about the Classes in G13, are you saying that Bards were just support?
They were given their own weapons, as you said, and were buffed to the point where they could fight on their own.
They had their melee skills, which a healer can't really use, to back up their playing. a healer is stuck with his/her bolts, and is essentially more of a burden.
Why get a healer when you can get another player with windmill?
We're trying to figure out a way to balance that out, and make it a matter of preference, and have healers become more useful than pots.
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Lan wrote on 2010-08-20 00:20
Quote from Andy-Buddy;131194:
Right now, Healing is a horrible support though. They can't go in and save someone last second, and if someone's caught in a strong monster's combo, they're dead.
I'm not saying we want healers to have a high damage output, but if they can even push a monster back to save an ally, without getting aggro'd him/herself, wouldn't that be much more useful than having the party member die and have to be revived?
Any little thing to make them a bit more useful, really.
That's what this thread is fore, finding that little thing that would fit within the "healer" sub-class, and make them more useful.
Fire bolt.
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-20 00:21
Quote from Phunkie;131179:
I don't understand why you people don't see how useless the Healing Wand is (or its ego).
Or how you defend it so strongly.
Truth is, it sucks. You get a Mana Shield bonus from using Healing Wands, but for what? So you can stand at the corner and heal some more? That's all you can do with the darn wand-- heal. Gosh, you should be able to injure undead monsters with Heal or something, like someone else said in this thread.
Honestly, I don't know if any of you have been the party healer before, but there is no satisfaction in standing at a corner and healing everyone else. It's boring as hell. Sure, you keep everyone alive, but it's boring as hell. Sorta like that Their Method shadow mission in Tara. It's quite easy, but all you gotta do it WM, after WM, after WM. It's boring and I don't do it for that reason.
Sure, a Cleric should heal his/her party members, but he/she should be able to do something a little more outside of that. More buffs, perhaps, like Andy said. Or an actual offensive skill with the Healing Wand. They can use Blaze, but that's not my point. Blaze is very much Combat Wand-specific. There should be something very much Healing Wand-specific, even you are able to use it with other wands as well.
Before Blaze, the Combat Wand was useless. Before G11 Party Healing, the Healing Wand was useless. It's a little better now, but it needs something more outside the scope of JUST healing. Something more party influenced, more offensive as I've been saying all along.
Standing at a corner and healing throughout a whole dungeon? No, thanks.
I do it because I want to, you say? That is very true. But I'd like more opportunities to do other things while playing the Cleric role in the party. Is that too much to ask for, really?
Just be a little more open-minded. I don't even think most of you even considered my idea for even a minute. I haven't even heard any changes to my idea or other ways to making wielding a Healing Wand more useful. All I hear are no's and no's. Why so hesitant towards a little change? It ain't always bad.
That's all I have to say.
Yes, Healing is meant for laid back people who don't wanna risk their characters in battle, but just make sure other people doesn't die. The reason other games like maple have offensive white magic is because healers can't help themselves when they need to fight.
However, that is not the case in mabinogi. Wands have huge splash radius, pets are anyone's third hand, a warrior can windmill guard you, and when times are desperate, you can use offensive skills that are not white.
From what I read from your thread, you want healing to be more interesting. And you suggested that an offensive spell for healers would make mabinogi more diverse. How exactly does mages and healers using similar spells, but of different color (one being white), make mabinogi more diverse?
I don't think you know the full potential of party healing, go run a special mission (ones you can do after you beat g11 with a pass) where you get penalized for using pots and dying. In those missions, party healers are really important. Instead of healing in the corner, you dodge uroboros' breath, meteors from a red dragon, or swords from claimh solas and heal your party members while they solely depend on you for survival.
Now doesn't that give you more thrill, pressure, or responsibility, thus making healing more interesting?
Honestly, healing in a dungeon is pointless. Like how you don't spam arrows at zombies, you don't use healing in certain battlefields.
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Hiccup wrote on 2010-08-20 00:22
@Lan Not a healing skill.
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Lan wrote on 2010-08-20 00:26
Quote from Bieber;131201:
@Lan Not a healing skill.
All he said was push back the monster, Healers can use firebolt.
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-08-20 00:28
Quote from Andy-Buddy;131194:
Right now, Healing is a horrible support though. They can't go in and save someone last second, and if someone's caught in a strong monster's combo, they're dead.
I'm not saying we want healers to have a high damage output, but if they can even push a monster back to save an ally, without getting aggro'd him/herself, wouldn't that be much more useful than having the party member die and have to be revived?
Any little thing to make them a bit more useful, really.
That's what this thread is fore, finding that little thing that would fit within the "healer" sub-class, and make them more useful.
Edit: Kazu, I don't understand what you meant about the Classes in G13, are you saying that Bards were just support?
They were given their own weapons, as you said, and were buffed to the point where they could fight on their own.
They had their melee skills, which a healer can't really use, to back up their playing. a healer is stuck with his/her bolts, and is essentially more of a burden.
Why get a healer when you can get another player with windmill?
We're trying to figure out a way to balance that out, and make it a matter of preference, and have healers become more useful than pots.
As a healer, if you allow a party member to go in a such risk as to the point you have to save them at the last second, you are not doing a good job as a healer or that party member fail much. A healer should be able to keep their party members' hp at max 24/7. It is almost as if healers are mana tunnel and they have to regenerate hp in a godly speed. If they are distracted to not heal, but attack a mob with a white skill, then they fail as a healer.
If you desperately need a third hand to push off an enemy while you heal, use your pet (like a vector in elfen lied).
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Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-08-20 00:29
If you read further, it also said something about avoiding aggro on themselves, and not having a monster who was attacking a partymate, now attacking him.
If said healer switches to melee, a set of swords, he would lose all of his mana, and he would have to retaliate quickly, and then... well, he would have to end up using melee, and that's not staying a healer.
Switching to ranged has the same problem.
Barrier Spikes, set up by an allied party mate, might alleviate this, but this would require an alchemist, which just fills up another spot.
Edit: @abc Pets are a viable answer to this, and that's a good thought.
A quick loading skill, which pushes monsters backward, far, and making them lose aggro would be a perfect skill, given a very short range, and a cooldown. (Healing wand only?)
Sometimes surprise criticals happen, and that ally might be an elf with low HP/Defense. You can never know, but you can always prepare.
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Lan wrote on 2010-08-20 00:33
Quote from Andy-Buddy;131210:
If you read further, it also said something about avoiding aggro on themselves, and not having a monster who was attacking a partymate, now attacking him.
If said healer switches to melee, a set of swords, he would lose all of his mana, and he would have to retaliate quickly, and then... well, he would have to end up using melee, and that's not staying a healer.
Switching to ranged has the same problem.
Barrier Spikes, set up by an allied party mate, might alleviate this, but this would require an alchemist, which just fills up another spot.
o_O Ignoring the fact that they'll have mana shield+Healing Wand and after they FB the person who you saved will now attack the monster? Also you have pets.